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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Originally Posted by AAIIIC Hat offset is the same. The center bore, however, is not - the V2 is ~65mm ...
  1. #196
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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    Hat offset is the same. The center bore, however, is not - the V2 is ~65mm vs ~70mm for the V1. I went ahead and bought 1 rotor, anyway, and I'm going to check with a machine shop to see how much it would cost to have the rotor re-drilled and the bore enlarged. If it was just re-drilling, I think I could do it myself, but enlarging the center bore isn't something I'm equipped to do.

    Off to the machine shop! (Same place that welded up my modified C5 brake cooling spindle plates - he remembered me when I called. )
    Now this option is more in my price range! Let us know how your drilling venture goes.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    How did you make out getting the rotor drilled?

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    As per usual, my projects tend to languish. I finally got around to playing with one of the rotors earlier this week. Before I bought the rotors, I had used good ole PowerPoint to mock up what the bolt patterns would look like laid on top of each other so I could figure out how possible it was. This isn't exact - PowerPoint does everything in inches, and only lets you define circle diameters to 2 decimal places, but that's probably closer tolerance than my hand drilling will be, anyway, soooo... As the diagram says, the V1 pattern is made with 13mm holes, and the V2 with 15mm holes. That was simply based on the respective stud sizes +1mm slop. It turns out the V1 rotors (at least, the aftermarket ones I have) have holes that are closer to 14mm. I haven't actually measured the V2 holes, as it doesn't particularly matter.



    The "best" overlap is as the diagram shows, with the holes lined up at 12 o'clock. That gives you 1 hole that overlaps pretty much completely, and 2 holes with slight overlap. Rotating the 6-lug pattern any other way means you end up with overlaps that are less conducive to drilling (which I've already learned can make things difficult). The V2 hole at 12 o'clock just has to be elongated a little bit, quick work with a Dremel and a sanding roll or grinding bit. I pressed one stud back into the stud-less V1 hub, so I could put that 1 stud into the elongated hole and then have the hub give me a template to mark the other 5 holes. For my first attempt, I just eyeballed the center of the holes and made guide dimples with a punch. As a result of my eyeballing it, I ended up with the dimple too close to one of those overlapped holes. It was fine when I drilled the pilot hole with a small bit, and still fine when I stepped that up to a 1/4" or 5/16" bit, but when I went to the 9/16" bit it just wanted to walk into the existing V2 hole. So, that 1 hole is a mess - I haven't try to fix it yet after making my initial attempt a few nights ago. The remaining holes were easy, though - no problems at all drilling through the aluminum center section of the rotor, even with just a normal 1/2" electric drill.

    So, I need to fix that 1 botched hole, and I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to do that. For the 2nd rotor I will definitely be more careful in doing my initial marking with the punch so that I (hopefully) won't screw myself again. I also might try approaching a guy who lives a few townhouses down across the street - he seems to be a wood-working hobbyist, and it looks like he might have a drill press in his garage.
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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Thanks... looks like you know what you doin I'm lookin to do this too if you dont mind keep us posted.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    When we did this last year I tightened up the holes on the 2pc rotor hats because during hard braking with aggressive brake pads/tire compounds the rotors would move on the studs. The little torx head screw used to hold the rotor on the hub would bend. IMO, I would size the holes based on the wheel studs size.

    The following dimensions may not be accurate, but this is what I did. Thread diameter of new V1 stud was measured at 11.52mm, ARP stud 11.60mm, GM Racing stud 11.80mm, new OEM V2 rotor hole 16.11mm. I went with the GM Racing racing studs and had the holes drilled to 12.70mm (approx 1/2"). As stated, my measuring device may not have been calibrated, what is important is the tolerance between the wheel stud and hole. If I knew then what I now now, I would tighten up the tolerance more because it is easier to install a 5 lug rotor than a six lug.
    I would do the same with the steering knuckle. Measure the knuckle to caliper bolt thread od and size the hole in the knuckle to a tight tolerance. In other word, just big enough to get the bolt through. The OEM Brembo V2 brakes are very good, as some of us really push them the tighter tolerance's have proven better performance and less wear.

    The majority of the cost of machining is the set-up time. Certainly, the more units machined, the lower cost per unit. In a perfect world, one would have the machine shop set up the OEM V2 rotor and lay out the desired bolt hole pattern. I know this is splitting hairs but the V2 is 5 x 120 not 5 x 4.75. Small difference but still .6+mm. Remember tighter tolerance may help when redrilling 5x120 rotors to 6x115.
    As AAIIIC stated, it is very important to supply the machine shop with the hub that you will be using so they can clearance the back of the rotor hub centric for the proper fitment.

    Regarding the V2 hubs, the V2 uses a different ABS system and the rear axles are larger with more splines than the V1 IIRC.

    One more thought. IIRC I think we had to go with a little different offset on the aftermarket hats to center the rotor within the V2 caliper.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Well, I'll be damned, I could've sworn the V2 and Camaro were the same bolt pattern as the Vette, but I guess they're both 5x120 instead. Weird. I'd love to be able to talk to the GM engineers who decide such things.

    As for the sizing of the holes, I'm not too worried about having some slop. I don't run the little set screws on my V1 RB 2-piece rotors (because the holes is improperly located on the RB hats). Neither of my other cars have any sort of locating device on the rotors. Honestly, I don't know why they would need to - the same massive clamping force that holds the wheel on also sandwiches the rotors between the wheel and hub.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Every time I pull my front rotors, that little torx screw is bent. They are stock rotors and would bend with stock pads.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Round hand file + sweat + Dremel = Success! Not particularly pretty, but I think it'll do. The elongated, messed up hole is at 10 o'clock.





    One down, one to go. Hopefully the 2nd attempt will be a bit cleaner.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    Every time I pull my front rotors, that little torx screw is bent. They are stock rotors and would bend with stock pads.
    Yep, mine did the same thing with stock pads and street tires until I started putting three lug nuts on backwards with just enough torque to set the rotor to the hub and then install the Torx screw before putting the wheel on. Since doing that I have never bent one with street pads. Now Cobalt Racing XR1 pads with A6 tires, different story.

    Thanks for bringing that up, I had forgot about it.

    ----------

    AAIIIC what hub bearing are you using?

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Updated my bolt pattern conversion drawing, accounting for the 5x120mm bolt pattern vice 5x4.75". I figured out how to shift PowerPoint (and everything else, for that matter) to metric, so now the drawing is more betterer. I also went ahead and made the V1 holes 14mm, since that's what I'm making them. (Well, 9/16", but close enough...)

    Quote Originally Posted by yooper View Post
    AAIIIC what hub bearing are you using?
    They're SKF X-Tracker hubs. See here.

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    Updated my bolt pattern conversion drawing, accounting for the 5x120mm bolt pattern vice 5x4.75". I figured out how to shift PowerPoint (and everything else, for that matter) to metric, so now the drawing is more betterer. I also went ahead and made the V1 holes 14mm, since that's what I'm making them. (Well, 9/16", but close enough...)


    They're SKF X-Tracker hubs. See here.
    I thought they looked familiar. I know this guy that put the 5 lug version of the SKF X Tracker hubs on his V1. They are available at
    http://www.vansteel.com/index.cfm?fu...&SubGroup=1970
    Ask for Paul and you will get great service.

    For those who may want to do this conversion starting with a 5 lug hub could you post up the drawing of your V2 rotor and overlay with 5x4.75 bolt hole pattern with 1/2" holes and all 5 holes not overlapping any of the 5/8 (16mm V2) holes.

    I understand Cadillac will offer a 2pc front rotor on the 2013 CTSV, more options are great for everyone.

    Thanks
    Bill
    Attached Images

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    [QUOTE=AAIIIC;2935648]Round hand file + sweat + Dremel = Success! Not particularly pretty, but I think it'll do. The elongated, messed up hole is at 10 o'clock.



    Well I got what I'm guessing maybe a stupid question....but anyhow here it is I noticed that in the above pic four of the studs line up perfectly. My question is can you remove the studs at the ten and two o'clock position and just use the remaining four studs alone?

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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Quick follow up on the conversion for some of the newer members: If you want to run 5 lug V2 rotors and OEM V2 Brembo 6 piston calipers and have greater wheel selection, for street use, here is another option.

    Use hubs designed for pre-09 C5 or C6 Corvette. The units are a direct bolt-on and they are ABS compatable.

    If you are a "track rat", the SKF BAR-5049C hub is quite popular for it's durability. Expensive, but worth it in the long run. This hub design comes on the ZR1 Corvette and the second generation CTSV. The 09 and newer use a different ABS system, have larger axles with more splines vs the pre-09. The SKF BAR-5049C hub was released as an aftermarket direct fit upgrade for the Corvette including the ZO6 for all the reasons stated in AAIIIC's research link and a few more.

    The BAR-5049C has a 5x4.75 bolt hole pattern. The CTSV2 rotor has a 5x120 bolt hole pattern. The difference is shown in the attached pictures. You are looking at a V2 OEM rotor machined to fit the V1 hub diameter. The rotor is sitting on an SKF BAR-5049C hub with ARP wheel studs. The next pictures shows a hub-centric spacers with 5x4.75 bolt hole pattern under the same V2 rotor. As stated there is a difference, but it is minimal. I am not suggesting or recomending anyone do this.

    Hope this helps.

    One more thought, for track application I like the GM Racing studs because thay are longer and the diameter is thicker giving a tighter tolerance. If you track the OEM V2 rotors with aggressive track pads and road racing slicks the rotors will move on the hub.
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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    Quote Originally Posted by yooper View Post
    Quick follow up on the conversion for some of the newer members: If you want to run 5 lug V2 rotors and OEM V2 Brembo 6 piston calipers and have greater wheel selection, for street use, here is another option.

    Use hubs designed for pre-09 C5 or C6 Corvette. The units are a direct bolt-on and they are ABS compatable.

    If you are a "track rat", the SKF BAR-5049C hub is quite popular for it's durability. Expensive, but worth it in the long run. This hub design comes on the ZR1 Corvette and the second generation CTSV. The 09 and newer use a different ABS system, have larger axles with more splines vs the pre-09. The SKF BAR-5049C hub was released as an aftermarket direct fit upgrade for the Corvette including the ZO6 for all the reasons stated in AAIIIC's research link and a few more.

    The BAR-5049C has a 5x4.75 bolt hole pattern. The CTSV2 rotor has a 5x120 bolt hole pattern. The difference is shown in the attached pictures. You are looking at a V2 OEM rotor machined to fit the V1 hub diameter. The rotor is sitting on an SKF BAR-5049C hub with ARP wheel studs. The next pictures shows a hub-centric spacers with 5x4.75 bolt hole pattern under the same V2 rotor. As stated there is a difference, but it is minimal. I am not suggesting or recomending anyone do this.

    Hope this helps.

    One more thought, for track application I like the GM Racing studs because thay are longer and the diameter is thicker giving a tighter tolerance. If you track the OEM V2 rotors with aggressive track pads and road racing slicks the rotors will move on the hub.
    For the newer members... what wheels does one use with the 5 -Lug conversion?
    Jeff James and Jeff James like this.

  15. #210
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    Re: V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

    OK, Just to get this right. V2-V1 Buy V2 rotors and redrill HubCenter & Studs, Buy V2 Yellow Front Calipers & bolts, Redrill Mounting holes in Upright, Buy V2 Rear calipers (Yellow) and mount directly as replacement without changing rotor??? Does this pretty much cover it? This is Waaayyy too easy if true. It makes this an affordable upgrade without all the Racing stuff. Makes a street car much better on a Track day and still a great DD. Someone Please acknowledge!!

    ----------

    Oh Yeah, These fit with OE 18" wheels,right?????????

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