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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Yah, one of my plastic push rivets broke too. It's been staying in place just fine without it though. I ...
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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    Yah, one of my plastic push rivets broke too. It's been staying in place just fine without it though. I was wondering if I could get longer ones for when I try these upper spring spacers, but I'm not sure of exactly what I'm looking for. Once I get this done, I'll be sure to report back.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    EdmundGTP, do you think you you could go any thicker than the 3/8" thick rubber? I am getting ready to order it today from McMaster. I am running a 245/45 tire and I have less clearance than you did before you installed the spacer. I have the same H&R Springs with FG2 shocks and rolled fenders.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    How hard is it to get an alignment for these V's back to factory specs? do we need any camber kits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    EdmundGTP, do you think you you could go any thicker than the 3/8" thick rubber? I am getting ready to order it today from McMaster. I am running a 245/45 tire and I have less clearance than you did before you installed the spacer. I have the same H&R Springs with FG2 shocks and rolled fenders.
    What diameter wheel are you running the 245/45 tire? I'm assuming 18", but ya never know so I thought I'd ask.

    As for making a spacer thicker than 3/8", you COULD, but you might not want to. I say this because I noticed that not much of that inner lip on the bottom spring perch was exposed after installing my spacers. That lip is one of the things that holds the spring centred in the perch, so I would want to keep some of that exposed rather than have a spacer that was taller than the lip.

    Are you doing upper AND lower spacers? If not, you wouldn't need to go with a thicker spacer, but rather do the 3/8 on the bottom and also add whatever thickness you'd like on the top of the spring.
    I can't remember what thicknesses I used (we did this stuff some time ago), but its the same on the top and bottom. It might've been 1/4". Together with removing the stand-offs from the MM shock spacers, my ride height is perfect now. My 275/35-19's don't rub at all. I also had to add offset trailing arms, but that was because of wheel width, not tire rubbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manitzchris View Post
    How hard is it to get an alignment for these V's back to factory specs? do we need any camber kits?
    Do some searching. There is a TON of info on this topic on this forum, as well as at the Cadillac FAQ.
    It's not difficult and you do not require a "camber kit".

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    I am running the stock 18" V wheels.
    I was unaware that anyone used a spacer on the top of the spring along with the spacer on the bottom. I just ordered a 3/8" and 1/2" thick x 6"x6" rubber pad from McMaster. I saw on LS1tech that someone used a 1/2" spacer and didn't state they had any issues. I figured that if the 1/2" spacer would work, it would be best to have it when I tore the car apart to prevent to much down time with the car.

    Do you have any pictures of the top spring spacer you used?
    Quote Originally Posted by WesH8398 View Post
    What diameter wheel are you running the 245/45 tire? I'm assuming 18", but ya never know so I thought I'd ask.

    As for making a spacer thicker than 3/8", you COULD, but you might not want to. I say this because I noticed that not much of that inner lip on the bottom spring perch was exposed after installing my spacers. That lip is one of the things that holds the spring centred in the perch, so I would want to keep some of that exposed rather than have a spacer that was taller than the lip.

    Are you doing upper AND lower spacers? If not, you wouldn't need to go with a thicker spacer, but rather do the 3/8 on the bottom and also add whatever thickness you'd like on the top of the spring.
    I can't remember what thicknesses I used (we did this stuff some time ago), but its the same on the top and bottom. It might've been 1/4". Together with removing the stand-offs from the MM shock spacers, my ride height is perfect now. My 275/35-19's don't rub at all. I also had to add offset trailing arms, but that was because of wheel width, not tire rubbing.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    I am running the stock 18" V wheels.
    I was unaware that anyone used a spacer on the top of the spring along with the spacer on the bottom. I just ordered a 3/8" and 1/2" thick x 6"x6" rubber pad from McMaster. I saw on LS1tech that someone used a 1/2" spacer and didn't state they had any issues. I figured that if the 1/2" spacer would work, it would be best to have it when I tore the car apart to prevent to much down time with the car.

    Do you have any pictures of the top spring spacer you used?
    I'm not sure. If I do/did have a pic, I would have posted it in one of my threads on this topic, so you might be able to dig one up through a search. I've been on a lengthy hiatus from the forums, after being here very regularly for some time, so I'm not exactly sure what I've got posted where. I do know I've got a fairly lengthy thread on all the lowering issues I had, along with the remedies I wound up using. Let me know if you have any questions.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    I just went to your account and searched threads you started and didn't find any in regard to the spring mod. Can you be more specific what to search for? As we all know, this forums search feature sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by WesH8398 View Post
    I'm not sure. If I do/did have a pic, I would have posted it in one of my threads on this topic, so you might be able to dig one up through a search. I've been on a lengthy hiatus from the forums, after being here very regularly for some time, so I'm not exactly sure what I've got posted where. I do know I've got a fairly lengthy thread on all the lowering issues I had, along with the remedies I wound up using. Let me know if you have any questions.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    I don't remember hearing about anyone using a half inch rubber pad spacer. I could have missed it though. I also don't know/remember if there is a good place to insert a spacer pad on the TOP of the springs in the rear. The spring perch of the rear lower control arm offers a perfect spot to put in a spacer beneath the spring, with pretty much zero chance that it can work itself out of place over time. I used a 3/8 rubber pad on mine. Using a 3/8" thick pad creates almost 1/2" of lift at the wheel due to the suspension geometry.

    9T8, not sure why you'd have even less clearance, unless you're running minimal, or close to zero degrees of camber. Do you not have the Mightymouse spacers installed yet either? You should be able to get very close to OEM alignment spec with this spring/spacer setup. Hell, even at -2.2 degrees of camber my rear tire wear has been pretty even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    I just went to your account and searched threads you started and didn't find any in regard to the spring mod. Can you be more specific what to search for? As we all know, this forums search feature sucks.
    I know there were threads here as well as over at ls1 tech forums. Don't have time to find them right now, but I'm the same username over there, minus the 'h'. Just Wes8398. Most of my threads were regarding h&r springs and the issues I had with them and my plus sized wheels/tires. EdmundGTP started a thread or 2 as well.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    WesH8398 mentioned above about using a spacer on the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmundGTP View Post
    I don't remember hearing about anyone using a half inch rubber pad spacer. I could have missed it though. I also don't know/remember if there is a good place to insert a spacer pad on the TOP of the springs in the rear. The spring perch of the rear lower control arm offers a perfect spot to put in a spacer beneath the spring, with pretty much zero chance that it can work itself out of place over time. I used a 3/8 rubber pad on mine. Using a 3/8" thick pad creates almost 1/2" of lift at the wheel due to the suspension geometry.
    Yes I have the MM spacers installed and I rolled the quarter panels after the right rear tire got all chewed up. The back end sags a lot and never really lifts even after driving a couple of miles. My camber is way off! It is -3 on one side and the other is -4. I have to get an alignment immediately. The previous owner lowered it and didn't think it was necessary. I basically destroyed a full set of tires after a few thousand miles.

    Quote Originally Posted by EdmundGTP View Post
    9T8, not sure why you'd have even less clearance, unless you're running minimal, or close to zero degrees of camber. Do you not have the Mightymouse spacers installed yet either? You should be able to get very close to OEM alignment spec with this spring/spacer setup. Hell, even at -2.2 degrees of camber my rear tire wear has been pretty even.
    Here is a pic showing the sag. Yes it is on a slight hill but on flat ground it does the same sag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    WesH8398 mentioned above about using a spacer on the top.
    Yes, but not 1/2" spacers. I think Edmund was referring specifically to the size.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    The back end sags a lot and never really lifts even after driving a couple of miles.
    This is due to the MightyMouse spacers. They're meant for people to be able to SLAM the rear suspension, and not have the auto-levelling Nivomat shocks kick in. That's why yours doesn't come up after driving. Mine was the same when I originally had just the H&R springs (no spring spacers) and MM shock spacers installed as per instructions. The H&R's lowered too much, and the MM spacers allowed for it without the Nivomats kicking in. My car had basically the same stance as your car in that pic. And that meant my 275/30-19's rubbed on every bump I hit and every corner I took. Bad news.
    So, that's when I learned what EdmundGTP was thinking of doing with the spring spacers, and did it myself. I added a 3/8" thick rubber ring to the lower control arm "pocket" where the spring sits. At this point I hadn't added the upper spring spacer yet.

    At the same time, I went back to the MM shock spacers and removed the stand-offs from them. That is, I removed the round, black spacers that sit between the frame and the top plate, and reinstalled with the top plate sitting directly on top of the frame. This allowed for the Nivomats to kick in earlier and not "allow" the rear suspension to ride so low.

    Finally, a few weeks after this, I felt that the Nivomats were working too hard because the stance of the car after sitting for a good amount of time was still pretty low, and after a short drive was raised a good inch or so. So, this was when I got another sheet of 1/4" or 3/8" (can't remember) hard durometer rubber and made spacers for the TOP of the spring perches. IIRC, I cut these into donut shapes as well (like the lower ones), but just made them smaller. I placed them between the top of the spring and the rubber upside down cone/top hat that's attached to the frame by a plastic rivet (sorry, no pic... you'll get it when you look at it though). This last tweak brought the "sitting still" height up a little bit more, and thus resulted in a ride height that I'm happy with. When I have a full tank of gas the Nivomats still kick in to the tune of about 1/4" to 1/2 when I drive the car, but that's ok with me. If the gas tank is about empty, my "still" height is damn near the same as the height right after I've been driving around, which satisfies my anal-retentive-ness. Most importantly, there's never any fender rubbing, etc. And that stands true when I've got a full tank of gas and 300 Lbs of human in the back seat too (thanks to the Nivomats doing their job).

    Any clarifications, just ask!

    Hope this all makes sense. I thought I'd documented all of those on one or both of the forums, but I can't seem to find the specific posts that I'm looking for. Maybe I never got around to it. Regardless, I hope this helps.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    Awesome info. Thank you for taking the time to share. I will def look into this when I do this mod this weekend.
    Quote Originally Posted by WesH8398 View Post
    Yes, but not 1/2" spacers. I think Edmund was referring specifically to the size.


    This is due to the MightyMouse spacers. They're meant for people to be able to SLAM the rear suspension, and not have the auto-levelling Nivomat shocks kick in. That's why yours doesn't come up after driving. Mine was the same when I originally had just the H&R springs (no spring spacers) and MM shock spacers installed as per instructions. The H&R's lowered too much, and the MM spacers allowed for it without the Nivomats kicking in. My car had basically the same stance as your car in that pic. And that meant my 275/30-19's rubbed on every bump I hit and every corner I took. Bad news.
    So, that's when I learned what EdmundGTP was thinking of doing with the spring spacers, and did it myself. I added a 3/8" thick rubber ring to the lower control arm "pocket" where the spring sits. At this point I hadn't added the upper spring spacer yet.

    At the same time, I went back to the MM shock spacers and removed the stand-offs from them. That is, I removed the round, black spacers that sit between the frame and the top plate, and reinstalled with the top plate sitting directly on top of the frame. This allowed for the Nivomats to kick in earlier and not "allow" the rear suspension to ride so low.

    Finally, a few weeks after this, I felt that the Nivomats were working too hard because the stance of the car after sitting for a good amount of time was still pretty low, and after a short drive was raised a good inch or so. So, this was when I got another sheet of 1/4" or 3/8" (can't remember) hard durometer rubber and made spacers for the TOP of the spring perches. IIRC, I cut these into donut shapes as well (like the lower ones), but just made them smaller. I placed them between the top of the spring and the rubber upside down cone/top hat that's attached to the frame by a plastic rivet (sorry, no pic... you'll get it when you look at it though). This last tweak brought the "sitting still" height up a little bit more, and thus resulted in a ride height that I'm happy with. When I have a full tank of gas the Nivomats still kick in to the tune of about 1/4" to 1/2 when I drive the car, but that's ok with me. If the gas tank is about empty, my "still" height is damn near the same as the height right after I've been driving around, which satisfies my anal-retentive-ness. Most importantly, there's never any fender rubbing, etc. And that stands true when I've got a full tank of gas and 300 Lbs of human in the back seat too (thanks to the Nivomats doing their job).

    Any clarifications, just ask!

    Hope this all makes sense. I thought I'd documented all of those on one or both of the forums, but I can't seem to find the specific posts that I'm looking for. Maybe I never got around to it. Regardless, I hope this helps.

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    WesH8398 mentioned above about using a spacer on the top.

    Yes I have the MM spacers installed and I rolled the quarter panels after the right rear tire got all chewed up. The back end sags a lot and never really lifts even after driving a couple of miles. My camber is way off! It is -3 on one side and the other is -4. I have to get an alignment immediately. The previous owner lowered it and didn't think it was necessary. I basically destroyed a full set of tires after a few thousand miles.



    Here is a pic showing the sag. Yes it is on a slight hill but on flat ground it does the same sag.
    This picture looks pretty much correct for the basic H&R/MM install. Looks very close to how mine sat when I first lowered it. I never had any rubbing issues with mine though.

    Another question that you may not know the answer to, since it was lowered by the previous owner. Did they totally remove the bumpstops or just trim them down? If they were completely removed and you hit some large bumps with suspension that low, I could maybe see how youd get rubbing. I just trimmed 1.5" off of my bump stops, and being in Arizona, my car never sees any large bumps at high speed. So no rubbing for me.

    Even with the HR/MM setup you should be able to get your rear camber dialed to around -2 degrees. -3 to -4 degrees is way too much for daily driving. I'm guessing if you copy what Wes did, you should be good to go.[COLOR="Silver"]

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    Re: The definitive h&r / mm spacer lowering thread

    The bumpstops have not been trimmed at all. I actually have two sets that haven't been modified. Yeah the camber needs to get fixed asap. All I really want is more suspension travel, no tire rub issues at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmundGTP View Post
    This picture looks pretty much correct for the basic H&R/MM install. Looks very close to how mine sat when I first lowered it. I never had any rubbing issues with mine though.

    Another question that you may not know the answer to, since it was lowered by the previous owner. Did they totally remove the bumpstops or just trim them down? If they were completely removed and you hit some large bumps with suspension that low, I could maybe see how youd get rubbing. I just trimmed 1.5" off of my bump stops, and being in Arizona, my car never sees any large bumps at high speed. So no rubbing for me.

    Even with the HR/MM setup you should be able to get your rear camber dialed to around -2 degrees. -3 to -4 degrees is way too much for daily driving. I'm guessing if you copy what Wes did, you should be good to go.[COLOR="Silver"]

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    I am also going to try and raise the front suspension slightly as well. I am going to see if I can make a 1/4" spacer to go in between the shock and the lower control arm and see what it does. My main concern is that it will be stable. That and a 40 Series tire on all 4 corners will help as well.




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