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Best "Bang-for-your-Buck" Road Course Mods?

12K views 111 replies 30 participants last post by  JDB 
#1 ·
I figured it would be good to start a thread on this, and I am looking for feedback from those of you who have tracked their V's at a road course.

What are the best bang for your buck mods for a car on a road course? I'm on a limited budget right now and have a few hundred bucks a month to throw at the car, and just want to see what would be the best mods to do for the car (in order from most important to least important) to have the car set up for HPDEs.

So far all I have is a Katech shifter w/ UUC bushings, and I just ordered UUC brake lines w/ ATE superblue fluid from Lindsay Cadillac (thanks Luke!). I plan on running the car at Sebring in November.
 
#58 ·
Carbotech Brake Pads and Castrol SRF brake fluid made a huge difference for the least amount of money. The Castrol is $80 a bottle some might take issue with that, but it's the best fluid and pads I have ever used!
 
#62 ·
I am very interested in this as well. I have done 18 track days thus far with the NCCBMWCCA in my track car and two of my DD. I do believe you should start on the track with a slow car and only improve the car when the car becomes the limiting factor instead of you.

After reading this I am going to try the Ti shims, and hopefully they will help with the track car. I will also skip the HPS pads, as some have mentioned these are a step back from stock. I wonder which pads people recommend that will work as well if not better than stock, and will not squeal. The main concern to think of is that this is a street car occasionally driven on the track, so I don't want to make any changes that will significantly hamper the comfort of the car.
I have a proposed list of mods.
Brake Pads / Fluid (ATE Super Blue)
SS Lines
Ti Shims
Cradle Bushings / BMR wheel hop kit w/ bushings
CAGS eliminator
Short Shifter
Wheels / Tyres
KW V3 suspension w/ 10k / 10k springs

As for Carbotech pads, on the track car, I run XP8 F/R, but I may be switching to XP10 if the Ti shims don't work.
 
#61 ·
XP16 and XP12
 
#66 ·
Well, I tried the XP16s and can't say I'm impressed. Braking performance was no better than it was with the Hawk DTC70s - if anything, it may have been a bit worse. And more importantly, the life of the XP16s is too damn short - 2 days at Summit and they're toast! Down to maybe 1.5mm of material left, so I won't even bother starting my next event with them on the car.



 
#67 · (Edited)
Thank you. Good feedback. I went with ST42s but always wondered about the Carbotechs.

Do Carbotechs require the rotor surfaces to be free of previous brake pad materials?
 
#69 · (Edited)
From the Carbotech site.
If rotors were previously bedded using a different manufacturer’s brake pads; then it is strongly recommended that the used discs (rotors) be reconditioned/turned and meet minimum specification requirements.
Reconditioned?? As in machining?
I always stayed away from Carbotechs because of this. Especially if you go back and forth from street pads to track pads. I'm thinking a Scotchbrite pad may not get the job done and the ceramic compound doesn't like the metallic stuff embedded in the rotor.

You an I are in agreement with most turning recommendations (waste of time) except I wonder if the friction material is all that different then it's really necessary.
 
#73 ·
Yoko AD08s with the ST42s. Street and track set up. Track set up R6s.
 
#74 ·
I see that you and unsafeatanyspeed both run the R6s. I was always thinking about the R1s, but maybe the R6s are better. Can you tell me why you chose one over the other?
 
#75 ·
R6s,as rebadged Continentals, are pretty plentiful right now coming off the Grand Am circuit. They can be had pretty cheap. I think the R100s are full racing slicks while the R6s are DOT and have two grooves. A guy I know who runs GT Trackdays said the R100s are super sticky but when they let go it's all over. R6s are a bit more progressive but certainly not as forgiving as a street tire. If the price is right R6s are hard to beat and are considered by some as the benchmark of DOT slicks. For me it was about cost. Good used R6s with 75% or more tread life are cheap right now.
 
#76 · (Edited)
I like the idea of a more progressive tire, I'm not a pro driver, so I want a tire that won't bite me the first chance it gets...
 
#77 ·
This might be a little off topic but i have noticed everyone chooses the GC setup and gets custom spring rates with FG2 Shocks. Is it just as good to get a full setup like ksports and stiffer springs as it would be cheaper then FG2's. Or are the KW V3 the only recommended full coilover setup for heavy track use and super stiff springs.
 
#80 ·
Yea im just curious because for springs rates above 550 it seems its pref to have FG2s. But are the struts that come with Ksports or KW good enough to run higher than that. Because each company does offer replacement springs that can be any number of rates that you would desire. I think im going to end up trying ksports with their 650 springs or closest ones to it on the setup. Just as it is a complete swap and i've seen good things from people who have them.

Id really be interested in seeing what all the different combinations are like compared to each other. GC with FG2s or QA1s, Ksports and KWs all with varying spring rates if anyone has even done that yet.
 
#82 ·
First off, the original poster said that he was looking for feedback from guys who track their Vs. By that, I shouldn't be talking, as I just got my V and have yet to track it. I'm working on the same mod setup myself. However, I have tracked A LOT (as in, probably over 300 track days) and I'm a test driver and writer for Excellence : The Magazine About Porsche.

I just wanted to chime in on my own generic track day mods/spends. This has been true with anything I've ever driven, including in tests for the magazine. I hope they help. (By the way, this is the best thread that I've seen on this forum so far.)

1 - I know it's annoying, but spend money on instruction before anything else. All you're going to do by waiting is form bad habits. Don't do it. Track Days 1-4 should be with an instructor. Then, start spending money on the car other than some core things, such as -
2 - Best bang for the buck that I ever use is Motul 600 Dot 4 brake fluid. It sucks to come in early because your brake fluid is boiling. This happens more often than the pads burning up, but that might not be the same with a 4,000lb car.
3 - Hawk makes awesome pads. It looks like these cars have great brake venting too. Again, brake fade sucks. It ends your sessions early. It's dangerous.
4 - These cars get hot. Take off that huge quilt of an engine cover and put on some Z06 fuel rail covers. Put a 160 degree thermostat in. This will require a tune, but guys like Frost will do them for $150. There are other things to deal with the heat too. Plus, the tune (for $150) will give you some HP and take out the stupid CAGS (thing that keeps you from shifting into 2nd sometimes).

Guys, the car handles well. Sure, coilovers are great and will be a benefit. But the car handles. I don't get why it's at the top of the list, given his question. Just my opinion. I mean, it ran an 8:22 on the N-Ring.

I also want to say that I've done some tire testing, and the best two things I've driven for street/track are the Toyo R888s mentioned above and the new Bridgestone RE-11s. Both are incredible, and far better at talking to you than the Michelin Cups. Most of the things that I mentioned (other than instruction) are not actually performance enhancers but performance prolongers (making up words is cool). But once you get that done, NOTHING will effect your lap times and fun like tires. Someone said the opposite earlier and I can't disagree more.

Paying attention to this and that, springs and bushings... it's all good. But before a real set of lightweight wheels and tires? No way. For example - I had stock 19s on my 911S (Moton suspension, supercharged, etc) with Pirelle P-Zero Rossos (as it came new). Then, I got a set of Volk TE-37s in the same size but with Toyo R888s. I had both sets with me during the 4 days in a row that I was at VIR. I swapped them back and forth and back and forth. I couldn't get the heavier stock wheels and Pirellis within 7 and a half seconds of the time of my other setup. That is a huge difference fellas. Those are roughly two minute laps. Also, at VIR, it's kind of something everyone says by saying that roughly 75HP gets you another second, all else equal.
 
#85 ·
Amen to that! Ive been researching tires and time attack(road racing) series for the past 6 months. I'm a novice racer(1 lapping day last summer) but spetacular on GT5 haha, Anyway wanting to have lower starting costs Ive already purchased a set of 245/40/18 and 275/35/18 RE-11's. I'm expecting them to last 2 summers(~12000kms) on the street and 5-10 half lapping/competition days. The other 2 tires I've given serious thought to are Pilot Super Sports and Yoko AD08's. I dont think you can go wrong with any of the 3 for double duty and cant get better without going to a dedicated R-Comp tire. Keep in mind RE-11's are directional and with a staggered setup the tires wont be rotating at all so checking/adjusting tire pressures and wear weekly on the street will be a must for max tire life. On the track obviously every session.

For the V1 the only things I would do so you dont get frusturated having empty pockets starting out for autox/RR is:

One of the above tires in a staggered setup(or really any tire to start!)
Short shifter w/UUC bushings
Creative Steel motor mounts
Creative steel front diff bushing
Dot 4 brake fluid(different depending on how often you want to bleed it)
Redline power steering fluid
Stay with stock HP1001 pads and GM rotors
Alignment!!!
Its common for our rads to not last and they're at the age they start to go anyway but replacment is up to you. Another stocker could potentially last another 5yrs if you dont lap to often but a full welded aluminum rad would definately be most reliable.
 
#84 ·
Let me chime in on the R888's. I believe that they are not quite the right tire for this car. They don't seem to handle the weight of the V. I've killed one set in 3 track days, and I saw another set (on another V) delaminate on the same day. Might try the RE-11's next time.

Also the R888 whine like crazy on the road.
 
#86 ·
R888s were used on the World Challenge V1s back in the day, but those cars were pretty lightweight. I get thrashed every time I say this but the original F1 Supercar EMTs were about the stickiest street tire I've every ridden on the V.
 
#90 ·
So my specifics :) :

V1, Stock Motor, Hotchkis Sways, stock fe2 shocks. Team Dynamics Wheels 9". Toyo R888 265x35R18.

3 Track Days, 4-6 sessions per day 20-35 minutes per session. I am an intermediate driver, and probably drive 8/10 on the track on average.

About 45 miles drive from and to track. (Summit Point Main). R888's were only used to drive to and from track plus sessions.

Purchased tires new from Tire Rack, not shaved. I heat cycled the tires on local roads 1 week before first use. Local highway cloverleaf over and over until I got sick :).

I do rotate the tires regularly front to back, but would have to unmount to rotate left to right which I did not do, but was planning on it before noticed excessive wear on outside set.

I checked pressures regularly, Trying to start somewhere near 32 at start of session, and ending up in low to mid 40's (could be an issue here). Checked surface temps using hand held infrared, was not looking or recording temps, but trying to determine if temp was evenly spread across surface.

Tire wear is on side triangular wear bars looks appropriate.

Inside tires look and wore fine, probably 50% or so tread used.

Outside tires have probable 70% tread used. Outside tires bubbled in a half dozen places. Could see eraser sized holes with cord showing through. Holes were both in center and mid way to edge.

I do not want to run on any tires where cord is showing through :)

Let me know if you want more details. I have not replaced tires but need to do so as season is approaching. I want a dedicated track tire that I can also use in a short (45 mile) trip to the track. On paper the R888's fit taht bill, but did not seem to last as long as I wanted them too.

Ron
 
#91 ·
You could easily run the R888s "backwards" (or any other tire, for that matter) if the weather is dry.

Low 40s for pressure may be too high. Both the NT01s I ran before and the Z214s I'm running now seem happy in the mid 30s. I would say the same is true of the various R-comps I've run on my Subie over the years. It may be that you were getting the tires outside their comfort zone, which increased the wear rate. R888s have a reputation for being a durable tire (albeit not as durable as the older RA-1s), so 3 days definitely seems unusual.
 
#93 ·
It's crazy how much heat you can get in a tire. With the Dunlops I used before the Kumho R-comps and now R6s I would start at 30 psi in the morning and hit 46 psi on track.
 
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