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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, AAIIIC's oil cooler thread in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Originally Posted by BigDz I have an '04 -V with BB headers and put an oil cooler on. I sourced ...
  1. #61
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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDz View Post
    I have an '04 -V with BB headers and put an oil cooler on. I sourced all my own parts from racerpartswholesale. I tried to use the Mocal remote thermostat and Lingenfelter adapter plate. However, there is really no good place to mount the thermostat on a V. The most logical spot was above the steering rack and sway. But I gave up when I saw the new LS adapter with built in thermostat. Even with headers it has about 1 -1/2" of clearance.
    Would definitely like to see some pics of your setup when you get a chance. It sounds like the B&B headers must have more clearance near the oil filter than the Kooks do.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDz View Post
    Now the results: I just ran the set up at Road America on Monday. I still saw temperatures on the display of 305 - 315F. Lower than last year by 20F. However, keep in mind that this is the temp in the pan coming off of the pistons. The cooler circuit is after the pickup and filter. The only true temp is at the cooler. You can put a factory sender on the adapter and I would recommend it. I have not done this yet. I do a lot of highway driving and last summer saw oil temps typically 275 to 300F. This summer, it never went above 255F. Therefore, I know its working well.
    That tells me your oil temp indication is AFU, which is pretty typical on the '04s and '05s. If your oil temps are the highway were truly 275-300F then the engine would've eaten itself long ago. Take a look at the Sticky thread in the General Discussion section, which spells out a couple of grounds that can be cleaned up in order to improve the situation. I'm still not sure my oil temperature indication is correct, but it's at least better than it was before - now I sit in the mid-220s on the highway rather than 245-250F.
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

  2. #62
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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Here is my setup the first time...

    I am goin to upgrade to a fluidine for i will be keepin it as a 10an all the way rather than droppin it to 1/2"....

    Now with my PS i used the original one as the first pass, then cam to the second one for more coolin.

    My Water temp stays very consistant at 92c and only climbs to 98c when racing....Oil temp mimics the water temp except when racing...It peaks at about 120c but is nominallly at 105c while racing...

    Perma cool Aluminium Oil cooler 10 pass with 1/2" NPT fittins and starlite hoses...1/3 the weight and twice the holding power...

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    Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

    I might have found a thermostatic sandwich plate option that will work. For the '04-06 cars (with the 13/16"-16 threads on the oil filter) the Earl's 503ERL might work. With the Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate, the thermostat part is opposite the inlet/outlet ports, which means the thing bulges out in a way that you can't fit it up in our rather restricted oil filter location. But as you can see in the Summit listing, the Earl's adapter has the thermostat bulge on the same side as the inlet/outlet ports, so I think it would fit.

    Now, I'm pretty sure that still doesn't help those of us with headers, but I'm throwing it out there for the non-header types. I need to get under my car again and put fresh eyes on the header/filter/adapter clearances to see if I think it would be do-able. At the same time I'll be looking for potential remote filter mount locations.
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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    Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

    I confirmed that the Earl's 503ERL will not fit with Kooks headers. I still think it's a nice piece - seems to have better/cleaner machining than the Mocal SP1 series adapters I've seen (and I have one of those sitting in my garage, so it's easy to do a side-by-side comparison).
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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    Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    I confirmed that the Earl's 503ERL will not fit with Kooks headers. I still think it's a nice piece - seems to have better/cleaner machining than the Mocal SP1 series adapters I've seen (and I have one of those sitting in my garage, so it's easy to do a side-by-side comparison).
    Check your inbox on another forum.

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Now the results: I just ran the set up at Road America on Monday. I still saw temperatures on the display of 305 - 315F. Lower than last year by 20F. However, keep in mind that this is the temp in the pan coming off of the pistons. The cooler circuit is after the pickup and filter. The only true temp is at the cooler. You can put a factory sender on the adapter and I would recommend it. I have not done this yet. I do a lot of highway driving and last summer saw oil temps typically 275 to 300F. This summer, it never went above 255F. Therefore, I know its working well.

    Next month is a new cam![/QUOTE]

    Have you installed a factory sensor in this location? Will an 04 stock sensor work in this location, or would a new sensor have to be purchased and use an external gauge?

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Quote Originally Posted by -T- View Post
    Have you installed a factory sensor in this location? Will an 04 stock sensor work in this location, or would a new sensor have to be purchased and use an external gauge?
    The oil temp sensor on the CTS-Vs is integrated with the oil level switch on the passenger side of the pan. I'm not sure why they did it that way, as the other LS motors use a 12mm-1.5 sending unit that mounts above the oil filter, like so. The Mocal LS-specific adapter has a bung for that 12mm-1.5 sending unit, since the Mocal piece installs in place of the stock sending unit bung thingy.

    That bung thingy will fit on the V's engine just fine, and you can order the Vette/F-body sending unit and a wiring pigtail from your friendly dealer. Doing some research online it appears that pretty much all GM temperature sending units (oil, coolant, whatever) use the same temp vs. resistance curves, so I think the Vette sending unit will read out correctly. I tested the Vette sending unit and my stock sending unit at room temperature and in my freezer and they had the same resistance. I would like to have tested them at some higher temperatures, but I don't really have any way to do so (too lazy to figure out how to make a fixture to hold the sending units in boiling water so I can check their resistance), so I'll just be hoping it reads properly. We shall see.

    I have the bung and sending unit installed on my car, and just need to figure out the wiring. I got some wiring diagram printouts from my '05 from the dealer tech at Lindsay that always works on my car, so this is something I'll be attempting soon. I also plan to temporarily wire up an Autometer gauge, with the sending unit mounted in the external oil thermostat I'll be installing with the oil cooler loop, so I'll have another way to look at oil temps to compare.
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Could you email me that diagram? I'm curious to see how the loops work. Is it a common ground supplied and each level and temp sensor report back with resistance to ground? Or is it a reference voltage fe and feedback returned? I wiuld love to do the mocal with a stock vette sensor reporting to the dic... That would be sweet if I didn't have to add an external gauge. Gauge temps hit 309 and forced me off the track 4 out of 6 sessions on my trip to Texas worl speedway last weekend.

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    I've only got hard copies, and no scanner to convert to electrons.

    I stopped believing my gauge at the first events I did. My oil pressures were fine, coolant temperatures were normal, so to me that was proof enough that the oil temp indication was garbage (since it was pegged at 329F).
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Let me know what you find out wiring wise. I believe the vettes temp sensor is the same as our coolant temp sensor. Seems to me like you could splice onto the ref line and extend the return from our stock sensor jut for oil temp and wire it to the new sender location. That way it would show up on the dic.

    This was my first track event and the chime alone is enough to throw my concentration out the window.

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    AIIIC:
    do you have the part number for the vette sender unit plate on hand. I am having trouble finding it an the local dealer says I have to order a whole oil pan from a vette/f-body. 149.99! No thanks. I found a way to wire it up.

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    You definitely do NOT need to order the whole damn oil pan! Dealer parts guys kill me with stuff like that! The sensor bung (which is called a "cover" on the receipt) is 12551587, and the accompanying gasket is 12611384. The temp sensor is 12608814. The wiring pigtail that goes along with the sensor (and has about 14" of wire coming off it for you to splice to whatever) is 88987993. (gmpartsdirect.com shows that as "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware", but my receipt from Lindsay shows it as a "connector".)

    Let me know what you worked out on the wiring. I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week - maybe on Sunday.
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    You definitely do NOT need to order the whole damn oil pan! Dealer parts guys kill me with stuff like that! The sensor bung (which is called a "cover" on the receipt) is 12551587, and the accompanying gasket is 12611384. The temp sensor is 12608814. The wiring pigtail that goes along with the sensor (and has about 14" of wire coming off it for you to splice to whatever) is 88987993. (gmpartsdirect.com shows that as "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware", but my receipt from Lindsay shows it as a "connector".)

    Let me know what you worked out on the wiring. I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week - maybe on Sunday.

    AAIIIC: Thanks for the part numbers. I will call the dealer back and see what they have.

    As far as wiring, I come up with a way to switch between stock sensor readings and the new sensor readings coming from the vette/f-body sender location. I will install a switch somewhere in the cabin, maybe under the dash. I want to conceal it as best as possible. I do not know yet whether the ref signal the PCM is using is just a chassis ground or an output so i designed it both ways and will integrate the new sensor as needed once i crawl underneath the car.

    I attached a .pdf of the schematic.
    Attached Files

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    You definitely do NOT need to order the whole damn oil pan! Dealer parts guys kill me with stuff like that! The sensor bung (which is called a "cover" on the receipt) is 12551587, and the accompanying gasket is 12611384. The temp sensor is 12608814. The wiring pigtail that goes along with the sensor (and has about 14" of wire coming off it for you to splice to whatever) is 88987993. (gmpartsdirect.com shows that as "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware", but my receipt from Lindsay shows it as a "connector".)

    Let me know what you worked out on the wiring. I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week - maybe on Sunday.
    As to why it says "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware". If you look on the outboard side of just below the brake fluid reservoir, there is a 2-pin male connector. This must be a provision for a low brake fluid circuit loop. Mine is not connected. Looks like the same mating connector as the one for my coolant temp sensor.

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    Re: Need help with oil cooler

    Oh, I figured it was just a standard connector. I pointed out the unusual naming just so anyone else that happens into this thread and tried to order the parts wouldn't be confused.

    Although I don't have a scanner, I realized I could just take pictures of the diagrams I got from the dealer. So, here's the harness connector for the oil temp/level sensor. (Note that these are for an '05, so it's possible there are different wire colors or routing on other model years.)


    And here's the basic wiring diagram. I left that full size (3.1MB) so the labels would be readable. Since it's so big I didn't want to post it, so I'll just leave it as a link.

    What I don't have is the diagram for the connector at the IPC. The oil temp signal goes to terminal 26, but I don't know where that is. And I'm not even sure where the IPC "box" is so I can access the connector - hopefully I don't have to pull apart the dash to get to it! I don't want to connect to the existing wiring at the stock sensor because I think something in the way that wiring is routed (either the signal or the ground) is the source of the high oil temps. I want to bypass that and go directly to the IPC connector (or just short of it, so I can maybe do a switch like you're looking to do).
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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