I am thinking about selling a complete oil cooler kit. Would anyone be interested? It would be roughly $400-450 plus shipping.
The kit would include everything needed to install an oil cooler (with integrated fan and thermostat to automatically turn the fan on and off) and a larger power steering cooler. It would include braided stainless steel lines with -AN fittings, a new bracket that holds the two coolers and replaces the stock power steering cooler mount and a sandwich style filter adapter. I have had one on my car for about 6 months and it keeps the oil about 20°F cooler.
I am a fairly new V owner and this is my first post on the forum. There's a ton of great info but after days of searching, I just can't find exactly what I'm looking for.
Any advice on adding an oil cooler to a '05 V? Anyone find a good complete kit somewhere? Tips on where to mount it? Since there's already a PS cooler, I'm concerned about adding another cooler and obstructing air flow to the main radiator.
Would a lower temp thermostat be a good alternative for track days?
"Pissinuoff" has a cooler set up. He may be helpful on this. Here is what I've learned so far. First, if your car has headers, there are some challenges. If your car doesn't have headers then Katech or Lingenfelter has an bolt on cooler adapters (10AN) that allow you to have the factory oil filter location but you must by an inline thermostat. Or you can purchase the Mocal adapter with a built in thermostat. If you have headers then you can go to smaller 8AN fittings and use the Derale adapter which allows you to have the factory oil filter location. If you want to go to 10AN fittings (my preference) and you have headers, then you will have to get a remote filter set up because space is very tight and I can't see how to make the lines fit. The tough part is finding a place to mount the filter. Inside the fender well looks like the best spot I've located so far. Now I have never met anyone yet that has a cooler with headers except Pissinuoff. I hear he has a top shelf set up with the 8AN fittings. If anyone has done 10AN with headers and the stock filter location it would be great to hear from you.
"Pissinuoff" has a cooler set up. He may be helpful on this. Here is what I've learned so far. First, if your car has headers, there are some challenges. If your car doesn't have headers then Katech or Lingenfelter has an bolt on cooler adapters (10AN) that allow you to have the factory oil filter location but you must by an inline thermostat. Or you can purchase the Mocal adapter with a built in thermostat. If you have headers then you can go to smaller 8AN fittings and use the Derale adapter which allows you to have the factory oil filter location. If you want to go to 10AN fittings (my preference) and you have headers, then you will have to get a remote filter set up because space is very tight and I can't see how to make the lines fit. The tough part is finding a place to mount the filter. Inside the fender well looks like the best spot I've located so far. Now I have never met anyone yet that has a cooler with headers except Pissinuoff. I hear he has a top shelf set up with the 8AN fittings. If anyone has done 10AN with headers and the stock filter location it would be great to hear from you.
Gotta revive this one because we are dealing with this first hand at the shop now.
Any updates on this, what's the difinitive answer for the cooler setup WITH Kooks headers ???
If I'm reading all the threads correctly: Either a Remote Filter adapter or PISSNUOFF's setup which consists of an adapter plate with -8 fittings
Any luck on the TPIs adapter and Kooks working ?
PISSNUOFF chime in with details and part numbers please ?
I've got no problems with the cooler or the lines, just need the adapter or a sandwich adapter that will work with the Kooks...(Canton or Peterson maybe?)
You can look at components at Canton Racing as well as the usual places like Summit Racing and Jegs. There is ample room in front of the existing radiator for an oil cooler. In fact, even if it were mounted horizotally it would likely provide adequate cooling since just running the oil through the lines and back can drop the temperature significantly.
Since you're new to the V community and asking about an oil cooler, I have to wonder if you're getting the erroneous oil temp readings that are a common problem, particularly on the '04 and '05 cars. Check this thread for more info.
Now, assuming that's taken care of and you still want an oil cooler, crankedupforit laid out the obstacles pretty well. This has been discussed a number of times (see here or here, for example), with links to where you can get the parts and everything, so I'm not sure what searching you did that didn't turn up any info.
Obstructing the airflow won't be an issue, and particularly the PS cooler has nothing to do with it. If you look at where the PS cooler is mounted you'll see it's not obstructing the airflow at all - it's tucked up behind the bumper beam, and isn't even mounted in the airflow.
I've made a setup for my car. The best place to put one is where the stock ps cooler is. Replace the pa cooler with a larger one and make a bracket to hold both the ps and oil cooler in a vertical position. Pm me if you have any questions as I'm on my phone now.
I've made a setup for my car. The best place to put one is where the stock ps cooler is. Replace the pa cooler with a larger one and make a bracket to hold both the ps and oil cooler in a vertical position. Pm me if you have any questions as I'm on my phone now.
I've got a lot of good information on adapter plates. The main pieces I was missing is on the size of the cooler and good ideas for mounting. Sounds like PISNUOFF has a good setup. Also, Luke at Lindsay had put together a kit.
PISNUOFF,
Unfortunately, I can't send you a private message. The site won't let me do PMs because I haven't been a member long enough or posted enough. I'd really like to get more details about what you have. Where did you get the dual oil/ps cooler? Pictures of your mount?
I have an '04 -V with BB headers and put an oil cooler on. I sourced all my own parts from racerpartswholesale. I tried to use the Mocal remote thermostat and Lingenfelter adapter plate. However, there is really no good place to mount the thermostat on a V. The most logical spot was above the steering rack and sway. But I gave up when I saw the new LS adapter with built in thermostat. Even with headers it has about 1 -1/2" of clearance. I built a mounting bracket for the cooler from scratch using 1" aluminum angle sourced from the hardware store plus a few stainless self tapping screws. I mounted the lower part to the frame of the AC condenser using several small self tapping screws. The upper part was fastened to the existing PS cooler. I used the Mocal 235 - 16 row cooler and AN10 hose. qty 3 - 90 degree and one straight AN10 fitting. I also bought a 10' piece of AN10 stainless hose. Mounting was the most interesting part. BUT IT WAS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! Take your time and plan the mount. With the new LS Thermostat adapter plate, the plumbing was the easy part. Hoses are easy to make. There are a few websites which show you how to do it. I cut the tubing with a air powered abrasive cutoff saw. A stock oil filter would be difficult to remove. I have moved to a AC PF61 (long style) filter anyways for better flow. Its not a problem. There was a small plastic cover plate over the clutch bell housing I did trim though.
Now the results: I just ran the set up at Road America on Monday. I still saw temperatures on the display of 305 - 315F. Lower than last year by 20F. However, keep in mind that this is the temp in the pan coming off of the pistons. The cooler circuit is after the pickup and filter. The only true temp is at the cooler. You can put a factory sender on the adapter and I would recommend it. I have not done this yet. I do a lot of highway driving and last summer saw oil temps typically 275 to 300F. This summer, it never went above 255F. Therefore, I know its working well.
I have an '04 -V with BB headers and put an oil cooler on. I sourced all my own parts from racerpartswholesale. I tried to use the Mocal remote thermostat and Lingenfelter adapter plate. However, there is really no good place to mount the thermostat on a V. The most logical spot was above the steering rack and sway. But I gave up when I saw the new LS adapter with built in thermostat. Even with headers it has about 1 -1/2" of clearance. I built a mounting bracket for the cooler from scratch using 1" aluminum angle sourced from the hardware store plus a few stainless self tapping screws. I mounted the lower part to the frame of the AC condenser using several small self tapping screws. The upper part was fastened to the existing PS cooler. I used the Mocal 235 - 16 row cooler and AN10 hose. qty 3 - 90 degree and one straight AN10 fitting. I also bought a 10' piece of AN10 stainless hose. Mounting was the most interesting part. BUT IT WAS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! Take your time and plan the mount. With the new LS Thermostat adapter plate, the plumbing was the easy part. Hoses are easy to make. There are a few websites which show you how to do it. I cut the tubing with a air powered abrasive cutoff saw. A stock oil filter would be difficult to remove. I have moved to a AC PF61 (long style) filter anyways for better flow. Its not a problem. There was a small plastic cover plate over the clutch bell housing I did trim though.
Now the results: I just ran the set up at Road America on Monday. I still saw temperatures on the display of 305 - 315F. Lower than last year by 20F. However, keep in mind that this is the temp in the pan coming off of the pistons. The cooler circuit is after the pickup and filter. The only true temp is at the cooler. You can put a factory sender on the adapter and I would recommend it. I have not done this yet. I do a lot of highway driving and last summer saw oil temps typically 275 to 300F. This summer, it never went above 255F. Therefore, I know its working well.
God Bless you man! I would die for some pics of your install. If you figured out how to use the Mocal adapter with the built in thermostat that would be a game changer for me. I can figure out the cooler mount I just need to see the way you got everything to fit between the adapter and the headers. I rang the bell several times at RA last month and outside of short shifting the cooler seems to be the only fix. Maybe I'll see you up there some day. The only wrinkle in this whole thing would be that the Kooks and the B&Bs have different bends in the tubes and the B&Bs have more room. Thanks
I am goin to upgrade to a fluidine for i will be keepin it as a 10an all the way rather than droppin it to 1/2"....
Now with my PS i used the original one as the first pass, then cam to the second one for more coolin.
My Water temp stays very consistant at 92c and only climbs to 98c when racing....Oil temp mimics the water temp except when racing...It peaks at about 120c but is nominallly at 105c while racing...
Perma cool Aluminium Oil cooler 10 pass with 1/2" NPT fittins and starlite hoses...1/3 the weight and twice the holding power...
I might have found a thermostatic sandwich plate option that will work. For the '04-06 cars (with the 13/16"-16 threads on the oil filter) the Earl's 503ERL might work. With the Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate, the thermostat part is opposite the inlet/outlet ports, which means the thing bulges out in a way that you can't fit it up in our rather restricted oil filter location. But as you can see in the Summit listing, the Earl's adapter has the thermostat bulge on the same side as the inlet/outlet ports, so I think it would fit.
Now, I'm pretty sure that still doesn't help those of us with headers, but I'm throwing it out there for the non-header types. I need to get under my car again and put fresh eyes on the header/filter/adapter clearances to see if I think it would be do-able. At the same time I'll be looking for potential remote filter mount locations.
I confirmed that the Earl's 503ERL will not fit with Kooks headers. I still think it's a nice piece - seems to have better/cleaner machining than the Mocal SP1 series adapters I've seen (and I have one of those sitting in my garage, so it's easy to do a side-by-side comparison).
I confirmed that the Earl's 503ERL will not fit with Kooks headers. I still think it's a nice piece - seems to have better/cleaner machining than the Mocal SP1 series adapters I've seen (and I have one of those sitting in my garage, so it's easy to do a side-by-side comparison).
Now the results: I just ran the set up at Road America on Monday. I still saw temperatures on the display of 305 - 315F. Lower than last year by 20F. However, keep in mind that this is the temp in the pan coming off of the pistons. The cooler circuit is after the pickup and filter. The only true temp is at the cooler. You can put a factory sender on the adapter and I would recommend it. I have not done this yet. I do a lot of highway driving and last summer saw oil temps typically 275 to 300F. This summer, it never went above 255F. Therefore, I know its working well.
Have you installed a factory sensor in this location? Will an 04 stock sensor work in this location, or would a new sensor have to be purchased and use an external gauge?
Have you installed a factory sensor in this location? Will an 04 stock sensor work in this location, or would a new sensor have to be purchased and use an external gauge?
The oil temp sensor on the CTS-Vs is integrated with the oil level switch on the passenger side of the pan. I'm not sure why they did it that way, as the other LS motors use a 12mm-1.5 sending unit that mounts above the oil filter, like so. The Mocal LS-specific adapter has a bung for that 12mm-1.5 sending unit, since the Mocal piece installs in place of the stock sending unit bung thingy.
That bung thingy will fit on the V's engine just fine, and you can order the Vette/F-body sending unit and a wiring pigtail from your friendly dealer. Doing some research online it appears that pretty much all GM temperature sending units (oil, coolant, whatever) use the same temp vs. resistance curves, so I think the Vette sending unit will read out correctly. I tested the Vette sending unit and my stock sending unit at room temperature and in my freezer and they had the same resistance. I would like to have tested them at some higher temperatures, but I don't really have any way to do so (too lazy to figure out how to make a fixture to hold the sending units in boiling water so I can check their resistance), so I'll just be hoping it reads properly. We shall see.
I have the bung and sending unit installed on my car, and just need to figure out the wiring. I got some wiring diagram printouts from my '05 from the dealer tech at Lindsay that always works on my car, so this is something I'll be attempting soon. I also plan to temporarily wire up an Autometer gauge, with the sending unit mounted in the external oil thermostat I'll be installing with the oil cooler loop, so I'll have another way to look at oil temps to compare.
Could you email me that diagram? I'm curious to see how the loops work. Is it a common ground supplied and each level and temp sensor report back with resistance to ground? Or is it a reference voltage fe and feedback returned? I wiuld love to do the mocal with a stock vette sensor reporting to the dic... That would be sweet if I didn't have to add an external gauge. Gauge temps hit 309 and forced me off the track 4 out of 6 sessions on my trip to Texas worl speedway last weekend.
I've only got hard copies, and no scanner to convert to electrons.
I stopped believing my gauge at the first events I did. My oil pressures were fine, coolant temperatures were normal, so to me that was proof enough that the oil temp indication was garbage (since it was pegged at 329F).
Let me know what you find out wiring wise. I believe the vettes temp sensor is the same as our coolant temp sensor. Seems to me like you could splice onto the ref line and extend the return from our stock sensor jut for oil temp and wire it to the new sender location. That way it would show up on the dic.
This was my first track event and the chime alone is enough to throw my concentration out the window.
AIIIC:
do you have the part number for the vette sender unit plate on hand. I am having trouble finding it an the local dealer says I have to order a whole oil pan from a vette/f-body. 149.99! No thanks. I found a way to wire it up.
You definitely do NOT need to order the whole damn oil pan! Dealer parts guys kill me with stuff like that! The sensor bung (which is called a "cover" on the receipt) is 12551587, and the accompanying gasket is 12611384. The temp sensor is 12608814. The wiring pigtail that goes along with the sensor (and has about 14" of wire coming off it for you to splice to whatever) is 88987993. (gmpartsdirect.com shows that as "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware", but my receipt from Lindsay shows it as a "connector".)
Let me know what you worked out on the wiring. I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week - maybe on Sunday.
You definitely do NOT need to order the whole damn oil pan! Dealer parts guys kill me with stuff like that! The sensor bung (which is called a "cover" on the receipt) is 12551587, and the accompanying gasket is 12611384. The temp sensor is 12608814. The wiring pigtail that goes along with the sensor (and has about 14" of wire coming off it for you to splice to whatever) is 88987993. (gmpartsdirect.com shows that as "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware", but my receipt from Lindsay shows it as a "connector".)
Let me know what you worked out on the wiring. I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week - maybe on Sunday.
AAIIIC: Thanks for the part numbers. I will call the dealer back and see what they have.
As far as wiring, I come up with a way to switch between stock sensor readings and the new sensor readings coming from the vette/f-body sender location. I will install a switch somewhere in the cabin, maybe under the dash. I want to conceal it as best as possible. I do not know yet whether the ref signal the PCM is using is just a chassis ground or an output so i designed it both ways and will integrate the new sensor as needed once i crawl underneath the car.
Oh, I figured it was just a standard connector. I pointed out the unusual naming just so anyone else that happens into this thread and tried to order the parts wouldn't be confused.
Although I don't have a scanner, I realized I could just take pictures of the diagrams I got from the dealer. So, here's the harness connector for the oil temp/level sensor. (Note that these are for an '05, so it's possible there are different wire colors or routing on other model years.)
And here's the basic wiring diagram. I left that full size (3.1MB) so the labels would be readable. Since it's so big I didn't want to post it, so I'll just leave it as a link.
What I don't have is the diagram for the connector at the IPC. The oil temp signal goes to terminal 26, but I don't know where that is. And I'm not even sure where the IPC "box" is so I can access the connector - hopefully I don't have to pull apart the dash to get to it! I don't want to connect to the existing wiring at the stock sensor because I think something in the way that wiring is routed (either the signal or the ground) is the source of the high oil temps. I want to bypass that and go directly to the IPC connector (or just short of it, so I can maybe do a switch like you're looking to do).
Putting together oil cooler kit... have some Q's / need some advice
I decided after my last track outing with oil temps around 300* and i'll be running the car in Florida, primarily at Sebring, since it is so close, I need an oil cooler.
Ive decided on the Mocal Matrix 235 oil cooler (19 row) which is 5 3/4" tall, 13" wide and 2" thick, along with running the Katech oil cooler adapter for LSx blocks, and Aeroquip 90* fittings for the oil cooler and a 90* and 45* fitting for the Katech adapter (see pics of why running different angle fittings), and will use the Aeroquip kevlar hose (10 ft should suffice).
First off, does all of that sound good? anyone have experience with the Mocal oil coolers or the Katech adapter? Is 10 ft of hose enough?
I have decided against running a thermostat because I only drive the car about 5 miles each way to work 2 days a week, and even then the oil temps dont get over 180* (I am bringing this up because many have said that you want to run the thermostat due to optimal oil temps being around 220-240*, but I wouldn't get up to that regardless). Not only that, but Im driving in south FL weather and havent seen the temps drop below 40* here.
Mounting:
Right now I am trying to decide on a mounting point. I have decided that I may make a bracket to attach to the backside of the metal bumper that I can attach the oil cooler to. It will be centered and will allow the oil cooler to hang down in the opening of where the lower grille is. This bracket will be angled a bit on both sides to contour to the angle of the metal bumper (it is not straight across), with the middle 13" section of the bracket straight across, that way I can mount the Mocal oil cooler mounting kit to that.
I was also considering the idea of replacing the power steering cooler bracket with one that will support the oil cooler as well, but have decided against this due to aesthetic reasons. Since the grille is blacked out, and the Mocal oil cooler is a silver color, it will definitely be visible through the mesh grille.
I have a question though; does it matter if the fittings/openings of the oil cooler are facing up or down when mounted?
Re: Putting together oil cooler kit... have some Q's / need some advice
Mocal is good stuff. That's the same size as the cooler I've got, I think. I still haven't installed mine, need to get to that before launching back into the open track season this year.
As for which way to mount the fittings, I've seen that debated a number of times, and I'm not sure there's really a "right answer".
- Some people will tell you that if the cooler inlet and outlet are pointing down, then you'll get air trapped in the cooler and thus at least some of the cooler won't be doing it's job. However, in my junkyard scavenging, I've seen lots and lots of OEM transmission coolers or oil coolers mounted with the inlet and outlet pointing down, so I don't think that's really a problem.
- Some people will tell you that if the cooler inlet and outlet are pointing up, that the cooler will never drain when you change the oil. But others will say that the cooler is siphoned out. I've seen OEM coolers mounted with the inlet and outlet pointing up, too, so I don't think that's a concern. (Although I do think, based on my gut feeling, that the longer the hoses are, the more likely it is that the siphon effect won't be strong enough to suck the cooler dry.)
- I'm pretty sure mine is going to end up mounted with the inlet and outlet pointed to the side. I've read differing comments about that orientation, too, based on whether the inlet or outlet should be mounted higher. I'm not sure it really matters, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
My intention is to mount mine hanging down from the radiator core support. The back of the oil cooler will basically be right against the front of the condenser up on the passenger side. That plan may not survive contact with the enemy, though, so we'll see.
Re: Putting together oil cooler kit... have some Q's / need some advice
Small Mocal matrix cooler mounted in lower grill. I went with a smaller cooler in a spot where I thought I would get the best air flow and not heat sync from the radiator.
Small Mocal matrix cooler mounted in lower grill. I went with a smaller cooler in a spot where I thought I would get the best air flow and not heat sync from the radiator.
exactly how I want to do mine! how did you mount it to the metal bumper?? can you go into detail? that's the one part that I'm trying to figure out (I figured I'd have to rivet the bracket into the bumper because from what I can see theres no way to put a bolt through the back side since it is enclosed).
Also, how hard is it to get the aeroquip fittings onto the hoses? any special tools needed to make sure it is done right?
Re: Putting together oil cooler kit... have some Q's / need some advice
Here is a top view of the mounting. You can see the L brackets and how they are mounted. I'll get you the commercial name of the swaged (I think thats what you call them) mounting bolts. Sorry for the crappy picture but you get the idea. Measure carefully. A big cooler might have the 90 fittings hanging pretty low. A local shop plumbed up the cooler since mine had a remote oil filter setup becasue of the headers and required lots of starlite plumbing. Sorry for the crappy pic. You can see the Mocal inline thermostat in the bottom right.
Here is a top view of the mounting. You can see the L brackets and how they are mounted. I'll get you the commercial name of the swaged (I think thats what you call them) mounting bolts. Sorry for the crappy picture but you get the idea. Measure carefully. A big cooler might have the 90 fittings hanging pretty low. A local shop plumbed up the cooler since mine had a remote oil filter setup becasue of the headers and required lots of starlite plumbing. Sorry for the crappy pic. You can see the Mocal inline thermostat in the bottom right.
yes if you can get me the name of those bolts that would be great. Those L brackets look great; where did you get them at? Did you have any problem mounting them directly to the cooler with the bumper being angled, causing the L brackets to be cocked inward?
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Cadillac Owners Forum
4.8M posts
369.7K members
Since 2002
Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX, Escalade, LYRIQ, Vistiq, concept and future Cadillac models.