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22K views 83 replies 20 participants last post by  deedubb 
#1 · (Edited)
As most of you guys know, I recently converted the V over to E85. Here is a little writeup of some of the process. I'll also use this to keep a blog of status and to answer questions.

This past weekend we converted my CTS-V over to an E85 tune, and for the extra fuel required, we ran a Walbro 255L High Pressure In-line pump with Custom fittings. In the Tune, we were able to add 9 to 10 Deg of timing in the mid range and 7 to 8 deg on the top end all with ZERO Knock. Dyno numbers are coming soon (hopefully Wednesday or Thursday). We are thinking it gave us about 20 to 25 RWHP Increase roughly.

The shop that did the install is A.I.R. (American Intense Racing). They are going to put a package together for this conversion if anyone would like to pick one up or has any questions. You can reach Clint at 303-250-1466. He's also here on the forums: 97BlueDeville is his handle. The kit will come complete with detailed instructions $299. The kit Includes:
-Walbro Inline pump 255L per hour. Good for approx 550 to
600 RWHP on Gas. Uses stock Fuel filter system.
-3' of High Pressure Fuel Hose, (good to 300psi)
-An Fuel Fittings to easily convert over from Stock Fuel setup, to inline pump, and back to stock, no removing or cutting of any fuel lines.
-40 Amp Bosch Style Relay to activate Fuel pump
-30 Amp Fuse for surge protection
-All Wiring provided, includes 1'Ground wire, 6' positive pump wire, 18'
10 gauge power wire, wire crimps & wire ties.

Below are the pictures of the Inline pump install.

Pics of parts, (does not have all parts involved, missing wires for
pump & wire ties Etc)

Took a little time to find the best place to mount the pump in the
tight confined spaces under the V. Turns out above the fuel filter on
the passenger side of the car was the best place.

Test fitting the pump.

Wiring up the pump.

Testing & Buttoning up everything.

Finished of pumps install. Positive wire ran to the rear of the car,
the ground tied into the 10mm bolt that supports the fuel filter. No
leaks, no wires or hoses that could get damaged, looks clean.

Now to the Truck. Passenger side you need to find the large grey positive wire that supplies power to the stock fuel pump.

Shown here is the positive wire (for the stock fuel pump) is cut and the Switched on wire for the relay is tied in.

The stock wire is crimped back together, and the rest of the Relay is wired in. More instructions in Pic.



Sorry that's all for the pics for now. In all, the install went well. The pump is surprisingly quiet.

Here are some of my initial impressions:
-Starting the car takes a few seconds longer because of the extra fuel that's needed.
-I definitely feel the added power. Before (and I assume its because of the 5300ft altitude here) I had problems breaking the rear wheels loose but now I have no traction. Again, I'm sure that you sea level guys already have this problem. The top of 1st is worthless and I have a ton of hop and that's giving it WOT from a roll.
-I do notice the extra fuel consumption. Statistically its about 30% more fuel required to run E85. E85 around here ranges from $1.98 to $2.19 per gallon.
-I have yet to see what the IAT's are like now since the E85. Maybe the summertime will show some differences.
-The injectors that came with my maggie were the green top 42#'ers. As it sits right now, at the top of 1st and 2nd gear, I am at 100% duty cycle and If I do any further mods, I'll need to get some larger ones (thinking 60#'ers).
-The exhaust smells sweet. I guess its the sugar in the corn. Its definitely pleasant though.
-I will update the thread with gas mileage etc as time goes on. I'm currently on my 1st tank of E85 now.


Please post any questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them!

Happy Motoring.


 
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#47 ·
The Weather conditions were very similar for both days. Dynoing at 7pm Nov 4th, and yesterday mid day, if I remember correctly it's very close to the same, possible that it was cooler on November 4th actually.

IAT's were better like Dave stated, about 20 Deg less on average. You cannot take these readings into account 100% anyway as the IAT does not see the real results as it's sensing air temp prior to the fuel spraying into the runners. Though I will say this, the manifold was cooler to the touch after each run than before, so it's safe to say running Ethanol just makes everything cooler, very similar to running Meth Injection, as far as cooling properties.. Both in conjunction would be very nice, and I plan on running that in my 2 project shop cars for next year.

The tuning was done with HP Tuners. No they cannot give 2 tunes, unless you make 2 different tunes and load each one with a laptop. Something might be done with a Flex Fuel PCM, where you can have a tune for gas and E85 in the computer, but you'll need to have the Flex Fuel pump and sensors in-tank to tell the PCM the % ratio of Ethanol and Gas. alot of work changing everything out, not worth it in my opinion.

Yes the single inline pump is good to 550 to 600 RWHP respectfully, on GAS in my experience. Take off % for running E85. Though this has not been tested as yet, and we can only speculate on the results.

On the initial dyno with the Magnavolt installed with the stock fuel pump, there was no lack of fuel, I actually had to lean out the PE tables in the upper rpms as boost increased, due to the fuel pressure increase. Otherwise he would go too rich in the upper rpms.

Yes you can use the Magnavolt on the in-line pump, to increase the output under boost, an additional (25% roughly) of fuel flow could be had by using both in conjunction, probably nearly doubling the amount of fuel flow more than a stock pump can provide on its own... But at these levels I would wonder if the inline would cavatate due to increase need from the stock pump. Perhaps use the magnavolt on both pumps, thats possible, though not been done. Besides, I dont trust those things anyway, BAP's have failed on more cars than I care to count, and I would not trust 100% a setup like that.. I would much rather use a Meth kit installed to supply more cooler air charge, and more fuel.

Clint
 
#48 ·
The tuning was done with HP Tuners. No they cannot give 2 tunes, unless you make 2 different tunes and load each one with a laptop. Something might be done with a Flex Fuel PCM, where you can have a tune for gas and E85 in the computer, but you'll need to have the Flex Fuel pump and sensors in-tank to tell the PCM the % ratio of Ethanol and Gas. alot of work changing everything out, not worth it in my opinion.
Frost on LS1tech is currently making dual tune chips for our PCMs. It has been going on in Australia for a long time now and FROST has brought it to the US in an affordable package.

http://www.tunedbyfrost.com/products.htm
Just switch the tune when you need to fill up with gas instead of E85. It's all on a toggle switch.
 
#51 ·
I do have an extra PCM :)
 
#54 ·
Ill enjoy it for now, but will need to step up my game again soon I believe :D. I gotta keep up with you lower elevation boys
 
#56 ·
...to the moon!
 
#63 ·
Great work Deedub! I am very happy and excited for you. I looked into this, but chickened out since I didn't have a great local tuner... (that was the reason I gave everyone) being a trail blazing pioneer was the other reason... so kudos to you. Time for me to start saving my pennies for when I grow the balls to finally pull the trigger. Congrads... this is the best thread I have read in a long time.
 
#64 ·
Thanks for the compliments guys. Only update is that I'm still on my 1st full tank so no mileage calculations yet. I don't drive too much...that and I've been recovering from new years eve lol
 
#70 ·
Sorry, I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but I'm thinking of switching as well. I live in MN and have over 40 e85 stations in the twin cities metro area. I switched my Talon over a couple years ago and gained about 100awhp from running 10psi more boost.

Anyway, I'm scared to run a Walbro inline because they tend to burn out rather quickly on a returnless fuel system. Did you do anything like add a return line to the tank to run this (and FPR)? What if the inline pump fails, you'll just be running really lean? I'm just worried about running twin pumps in case a single fails.
 
#72 ·
Anyway, I'm scared to run a Walbro inline because they tend to burn out rather quickly on a returnless fuel system. Did you do anything like add a return line to the tank to run this (and FPR)? What if the inline pump fails, you'll just be running really lean? I'm just worried about running twin pumps in case a single fails.
I did not add a return line to the tank but i'm sure it could be done. If the inline pump fails, my stock one still works and is intact. This inline is in addition to the stocker, both work all the time. It will deliver fuel sufficiently I just would not try to hit full boost just to ensure i don't starve it for fuel. Remember this inline was put in because my magnavolt failed on me and I didn't want to take the chance in putting the stock pump to max levels. Just added safety I guess.
 
#71 ·
Andrew, have you talked to Hitech in Elk River at all? They might be able to shed some light on your questions. I know they do the conversions and seem to be quite reputable/knowledgable as far as I've heard.
 
#73 ·
Matt, I haven't talked to Hitech, I always go to DB Performance for my tuning needs. Shane (the tuning guy there) is big into FI and E85 and is a master, so I stick with what I know I guess.

But it doesn't hurt to give them a call to see what they do on returnless fuel setups with higher flow pumps. Maybe they run the OE high flow pumps off cars like the Ford GT that are made to flow a lot without a return system. Maybe the Bosch 044 inline would be a better choice, I'll have to research them, and I know they outflow a single Walbro 255.

deedubb, I know the stock would still work fine if the inline fails, but how would you know the inline fails? Or if it happens mid-pull and the stocker can't keep up. I guess you'd be ok if you watched a fuel pressure gauge or wideband, but I won't have one. That's what scares me about dual pumps, if just one fails. If both are gone obviously there isn't a problem because the car will just die instead of run lean and blow up.
 
#74 ·
I wouldn't know if it failed. I can audibly hear it when i fire it up but I guess it could still make noises and not work properly. I guess if you're looking for that sort of reassurance, you'll need a FPR and/or a wideband.
 
#75 ·
I guess when I get more time I'll read through the thread a little more thoroughly but from what I seen your getting apx 10mpg on E?

There should be no reason to leave any straight gas in your tank as your effectively defeating the main purpose behind E85. I ran E85 in my Subaru for almost 3 years (50k miles) summer/winter and our blend locally is ALWAYS at least 85% via water separator testing. If you are having starting problems there are ways around that issue during the winter, IE: block heater and added cranking fuel and timing.

I averaged 21mpg on 93 10% ethanol blend and around 18.5-19mpg on straight E85. I did all of my own tuning and tuning for quite a few other Subaru's and they key is lean into boost (open loop, WOT, what have you) and lean towards redline. On my "mileage map" I could squeeze out around 24mpg on E, which is actually about a full point better than I could on 93 octane.

A maggie + pulley on E - could be very very potent... :)

-Jerod
 
#84 ·
haha, yeah this state has become a bit different from the old days....thats for sure. Glad to see you are all around still. I got rid of the V, had a baby, another on the way so tossing the idea around a new V....we shall see :)
 
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