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22K views 83 replies 20 participants last post by  deedubb 
#1 · (Edited)
As most of you guys know, I recently converted the V over to E85. Here is a little writeup of some of the process. I'll also use this to keep a blog of status and to answer questions.

This past weekend we converted my CTS-V over to an E85 tune, and for the extra fuel required, we ran a Walbro 255L High Pressure In-line pump with Custom fittings. In the Tune, we were able to add 9 to 10 Deg of timing in the mid range and 7 to 8 deg on the top end all with ZERO Knock. Dyno numbers are coming soon (hopefully Wednesday or Thursday). We are thinking it gave us about 20 to 25 RWHP Increase roughly.

The shop that did the install is A.I.R. (American Intense Racing). They are going to put a package together for this conversion if anyone would like to pick one up or has any questions. You can reach Clint at 303-250-1466. He's also here on the forums: 97BlueDeville is his handle. The kit will come complete with detailed instructions $299. The kit Includes:
-Walbro Inline pump 255L per hour. Good for approx 550 to
600 RWHP on Gas. Uses stock Fuel filter system.
-3' of High Pressure Fuel Hose, (good to 300psi)
-An Fuel Fittings to easily convert over from Stock Fuel setup, to inline pump, and back to stock, no removing or cutting of any fuel lines.
-40 Amp Bosch Style Relay to activate Fuel pump
-30 Amp Fuse for surge protection
-All Wiring provided, includes 1'Ground wire, 6' positive pump wire, 18'
10 gauge power wire, wire crimps & wire ties.

Below are the pictures of the Inline pump install.

Pics of parts, (does not have all parts involved, missing wires for
pump & wire ties Etc)

Took a little time to find the best place to mount the pump in the
tight confined spaces under the V. Turns out above the fuel filter on
the passenger side of the car was the best place.

Test fitting the pump.

Wiring up the pump.

Testing & Buttoning up everything.

Finished of pumps install. Positive wire ran to the rear of the car,
the ground tied into the 10mm bolt that supports the fuel filter. No
leaks, no wires or hoses that could get damaged, looks clean.

Now to the Truck. Passenger side you need to find the large grey positive wire that supplies power to the stock fuel pump.

Shown here is the positive wire (for the stock fuel pump) is cut and the Switched on wire for the relay is tied in.

The stock wire is crimped back together, and the rest of the Relay is wired in. More instructions in Pic.



Sorry that's all for the pics for now. In all, the install went well. The pump is surprisingly quiet.

Here are some of my initial impressions:
-Starting the car takes a few seconds longer because of the extra fuel that's needed.
-I definitely feel the added power. Before (and I assume its because of the 5300ft altitude here) I had problems breaking the rear wheels loose but now I have no traction. Again, I'm sure that you sea level guys already have this problem. The top of 1st is worthless and I have a ton of hop and that's giving it WOT from a roll.
-I do notice the extra fuel consumption. Statistically its about 30% more fuel required to run E85. E85 around here ranges from $1.98 to $2.19 per gallon.
-I have yet to see what the IAT's are like now since the E85. Maybe the summertime will show some differences.
-The injectors that came with my maggie were the green top 42#'ers. As it sits right now, at the top of 1st and 2nd gear, I am at 100% duty cycle and If I do any further mods, I'll need to get some larger ones (thinking 60#'ers).
-The exhaust smells sweet. I guess its the sugar in the corn. Its definitely pleasant though.
-I will update the thread with gas mileage etc as time goes on. I'm currently on my 1st tank of E85 now.


Please post any questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them!

Happy Motoring.


 
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#2 ·
Better not let the fuel level get very low, you just eliminated the fuel pump's ability to get gas out of the left side of the fuel tank, once it hits the saddle you'd best start making some hard left hand turns!
I'll stop there because I am sure the rest would be meaningless if you have gone this far.
 
#3 ·
Yup, I was told to keep her filled up over 1/3 tank all the time.

The good thing, is if I ever convert back for whatever reason, Its easy to do. Just chew up most of the gas, then plug back in my old tune and viola.
 
#4 ·
If you drove to a low-altitude location, would the PCM have the ability to fully compensate?

What do you figure your maximum driving range is now in view of the 30% reduction in fuel economy and ewill's observation re the saddle?

Next up: WH.
 
#12 ·
I'm not sure about that one Randy. I assume it would skew my A/F ratios. My maximum driving range is still being calculated but it has dropped significantly. Unfortunately one of the downsides to E85 is that I have to plan my trips around where gas stations that offer E85 are. Fortunately for me, I don't take the V on long trips...or haven't attempted it yet.

nice setup, but how are you able to switch tunes? on the fly or with a laptop?
To switch tunes, I'd just have my tuner upload my old tune via laptop.


So as with everything there are some disadvantages about it. It will absolutely not work for some people.
 
#5 ·
What was changed in the tune?
And what if you can't find E85?
 
#10 ·
The car was tuned for E85. If he cannot find E85, he can put regular gas in the tank, the o2 sensors will read a rich condition and likely pull fuel accordingly, might throw a Rich SES light, though I did change the stoichiometric valves from 14.7 to 9.8 for the E85, might not throw a code at all. The car will run fine, but he can't get on it too much as the new timing tables will most certainly cause him to knock under heavy load.

Dynoing the car tomorrow, looking for good results with the e85.
 
#8 · (Edited)
The Fuel system still acts stock, pulling fuel from both the driver side and passenger side. Having the in-line pump installed increased the fuel flow an aprox 60% on top of the stock pump. I told Dave not to let the tank drop much below 1/3 tank, as I don't want him to run the risk of running out of fuel, or allowing these pumps to get too hot.

Good Write up Dave... I'm curious what she will put down.
 
#58 ·
Thanks. I was thinking that this would be a cool mod, so I started looking into it.

1. The closest stations to me with e85 are 15, 25, and 30 miles from my house, and none are anywhere close to where I travel.

2. Considering the recommendation to keep 1/3 of a tank of gas at all times (5.8 gallons), that leaves you with an effective fuel tank size of 11.7 gallons.

3. My average MPG now at 13 would be roughly 10 with e85, which would get me approximately 117 miles between fillups. :eek:

Conclusion: If I had to travel 15 miles to get the e85, the round trip takes 3 gallons out of my tank, which costs roughly $6, the round trip according to mapquest is 1 hour, and leaves me the ability to travel about 85 miles when I'm not traveling to and from the e85 gas station.

Guess it's not for me.
 
#14 ·
Great write up Deedubb. Looking forward to seeing some numbers tomorrow. I'm planning on doing the same thing when I find a tuner. I love the inline pump. Did you have a Magnavolt? I'd like to install the Walbro 255 and eliminate the MV and the inline pump would be way easier than dropping the tank.
 
#15 ·
Yup I ditched the magnavolt when it failed on me. It's no longer needed with the new inline and proper tuning :)
 
#16 ·
You might wanna invest in some tuning software. I use HT tuners, and all it would take is two minutes to switch tunes. I wouldn't fell comfortable with the car trying to adjust from E85 to gas. And with that much timing.....If you do have to run gas with this tune, don't lug the gears. I notice (this is my car with my tune) if I let the RPMs get too low (under 1500) sometimes I get knock retard. When I'm off the gas and let the RPMs drop, when I get back on the gas she goes into boost and the MAP spikes. Say your on the highway in sixth. Traffic slows down for a bit. When you get back on the gas, your RPMs are a little over 1000, the MAP will spike. This is when I get some KR, so I keep the timing low in those cells.
You also may want to look into a wideband. Not sure how your narrowband O2s are dealing with such a rich AFR.

Keep in mind: This is from my limited experience with HP tuners, and watching/logging how my car reacts to changes in my tune. Hopefully the "smart" people will comment on my post.

Anyway, good luck today. Can't wait to see your numbers :)

Tony
 
#17 ·
Yeah, Tony's probably right to invest in a handheld tuner ... you know, just in case. You are blazing a trail here after all ... as far as this forum is concerned anyway.

I agree with Tony in the WB O2 sensor. But, the term "rich" may not apply since stoichiometric with E85 is 9.8/10/whatever so you have to adjust your thinking to that kind of number.
 
#19 ·
Holy. Cow!!!!

Nobody will believe this. I gotta get the dyno sheet scanned
 
#20 ·
#21 ·
Pre e85 was 429rwhp, post e85...... 487rwhp!!!

And IAT's stayed 20-30 degrees lower than last time after 3-4 pulls.
Most will say no way but I'll scan and post dyno sheets!
 
#24 ·
I dunno what that is Ted, my tuner should be here sometime today to post the dyno sheets though and can answer that for me.
I don't even have headers or have yet to put on the OD pulley. Should easily see over 500 at the wheels!
I'm stoked!!
 
#25 ·
:thumbsup:

Dang! Those are great numbers! Congrats!

Just think about the guyz at sea level doing this. :stirpot:




To clear things up. When I said rich, I was talking about running gas, if he can't find E85. I doubt the PCM is gonna simply adjust from 9.8 to 14.7. ...
Oh, I see how you were thinking. :duh: I'm thinking you're probably right! That's a big adjustment going from E85 to "normal" premium gasoline in terms of the volume of fuel being injected ... I wouldn't think the PCM could adjust that far, either.
 
#27 ·
Yup I gotta get injectors next. I think they said my injectors were 100% at the top of 2nd/3rd :(. In fact, I can't do the OD pulley till I get 60#ers or better
 
#28 ·
Dee, when I was doing mine maggie a couple of years ago, Rick and I were communicating pretty closely. He had different injectors in his maggie and wanted the 60 #ers I had (Motrons). He ended up ordering the wrong ones. He seemed to imply that he had to eat them, though I'm not certain of that, but he ordered "long" ones according to him instead of "short" ones. All I'm saying is look everything over real well before you plunk down your plastic.

Dang, this is exciting! :bouncy:
 
#40 ·
Congrads dave...!

Dave's CTS-V with E85 Conversion = 58 RWHP / 55 RWTQ Increase

Again "Fan of E85 Fuel!"

After a inline fuel pump, and e85 tune were installed on Dave's CTS-V, did a dyno today as you all know..

Results below of best run of 91 Oct VS E85 Fuel. "NO" other mods done.
I'll just bump this post, cuz its so nice looking :)
Clint, what software did you use to tune the car?
I run HP tuners, and I'm curious exactly what the changes are.
 
#34 ·
Thanks for posting the dyno sheet Clint!

I have ditched the CAM idea for the time being. I think with Headers and the OD Pulley, I'll be pretty well up over 500RWHP which was my original goal. I've gotta do something about the wheel hop now.
 
#35 ·
Dee, you've basically got the choice between Kooks and B&B for headers. Yeah, I know TPIS has 'em, too, but Kooks and B&B are far more common, and I'd still with one of those two.

Ques: Are you at all into having some exhaust sound? The reason I ask is going B&B all the way back will probably yield the most aggressive sound, whereas the Kooks and, say, Corsa will be a bit more tame. If you go with either set of headers and maintain your stock exhaust with muffler delete, you'll save some bucks, and the sound will still be, as heavy puts it, "bitchin'." And the best part is you'll be able to pump air out of the cylinders much more completely.

The H-E axles would virtually eliminate WH, but spending on those, too, might put you in the poor house (if you're not there already). Specter Werkes bushings would help with a big portion of the WH (ask Tony) and be substantially less expensive, too.

And your diff? Guess we'll need heavy to come up with a miracle or you'll need to rob a bank somewhere.



What're your thoughts?
 
#36 ·
As far as exhaust, I'm all for loud but honestly the best price will probably yield the path I choose.
I have not read up too much on wheel hop because I never noticed it much in the past. Now it's a constant reminder. I would think the H-E axles or GE force ones along with some specter bushings would do me justice...if both are even needed. I already made a comment to the wife about the steel diff that nutz has for sale but it almost cost me a black eye!!

Now if heavy could get something going, I could probably save some coin.

But next steps for me are larger injectors, 10% OD pulley and headers...in that order. That is unless something cool comes up for sale lol!
 
#38 ·
quick question, in a vw/audi you are able to load multiple tunes and then switch b/w them using the headlight stalk so you can run high boost and that tune and go to a low bost setting if you dont have good enough fuel available.

is that sort of setup available for us to use on the fly.
 
#39 ·
quick question, in a vw/audi you are able to load multiple tunes and then switch b/w them using the headlight stalk so you can run high boost and that tune and go to a low bost setting if you dont have good enough fuel available.

is that sort of setup available for us to use on the fly.
99% sure we don't have that option. Been going to the HP tuners forum a lot, and I haven't seen anything about it.

Dee: NICE!!! :highfive:
Quick question on the dyno pulls. Was there a difference in outside air temps between the runs. Oh, and what were the IATs befoe/after.

As for the injectors, why not just call Magnuson. Tom (510) said that he and I have 60# blue tops in ours. Like I said earlier, duty cycle didn't go over 60% on the dyno.
 
#43 ·
I guess 2009 (as much as it sucked otherwise :mad:) has been a good mod year. And if we can get consistant results, this does beat out the axles. Whipple can have an early start at next years trophy.

I went back to the first post. At $299, this is a very interesting mod. I'll research how available E85 is in NY, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Question: The inline pump was rated at 550-600RWHP "on gas". Does this mean the rating is lower with E85, since you need to flow so much more fuel? I wonder if we can get away with using the Magnavolt? Hmmm.....this just got a little more interesting :bouncy:
 
#46 ·
That would also work well for running a tune for meth and if you run out, back the timing down so nothing pops. I like it.
 
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