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9K views 59 replies 16 participants last post by  JimmyH 
#1 ·
A local shop here in MN "converts" vehicles to run E85. Anyone ever try this on a V? With future plans there is certainly some benefits to running 105 octane fuel (at least i think thats what E85 is, correct me if I'm wrong). Apparently you can also switch between regular pump gas as well. Its relatively spendy to do it but just wanted to see if anyone here has done it, what they truly gained, and if its recommended. Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Interested as well but not sure if it's different for forced induction applications
 
#4 ·
I did a comparison on a new 2009 vehicle running 87 octane and then e85. The tests showed a consistent gain of 6-8 mph in the 1/4 by changing to e85 and 1.1 seconds faster.

I would love to see the difference in a supercharged V. Please post your results when you do it.
 
#5 ·
Max-Q: Very interesting...Care to share a little more? What type of vehicle? Any mods? Was this at a track or using timing equipment (i.e. g-tech, gps, vbox)? Also, were there any other changes to accomplish these results or stictly just switching to E85?
 
#6 ·
2009 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor package. I've been using the dyno app on my iphone and I verify the speed with GPS, certified speedometer and radar.

The tests were done at the exact same location each time. I weighed my vehicle at the scale house with me inside so I have a pretty accurate weight. After that I did three runs with less than a 1/4 tank of 87 oct. Each run was nearly identical and all were verified with my other speed measurement devices.

After those runs I filled with e85 and drove 15 miles to clear the gas from the lines. I did several WOT runs to let the computer recalibrate itself then I went to the exact same spot and did more runs with the e85. Nothing was changed with the vehicle and only 45 minutes passed between the test with 87 and e85. Not even the climate control was adjusted. The phone was secured in the same location in the cup holder so that it couldn't move.

The results showed the e85 to be 1.1 seconds faster and 5.6 mph faster. I did more runs the next night at the same location to allow the ECU more time to make it's adjustments and I found that the trap speed increased by several MPH more after 24 hours.

We did the same thing for another car tonight and again found about a 5 MPH increase between the 87 oct and the e85.

I'll post up the total numbers later since I don't have them in front of me right now. Needless to say, we are all impressed by the benefits of the e85 and to top it off we are saving the state about $0.30 per gallon.
 
#8 ·
E85 will grant you more hp, NA or FI. Benefits are increased with FI over NA. However, you will need injectors that are around 50% larger to be safe, and a completely different tune to take full advantage of the fuel swap. I switched to e85 on a racecar with inlet restrictor rules for an average gain of 6% hp and a peak gain of 11% hp. To acheive this change, I added around 40% more fuel (by volume), and x degrees of spark timing. The higher octane will not grant you any hp gains unless you are boosted or running on your knock limit. The main 2 benefits of the fuel are a result of its chemistry. The fact that its an oxygenated fuel, and the fact that since its an alcohol it cools the intake air charge during vaporization.

Also, when you calculate the increased flowrates, e85 is not a cost saving (depending slightly on local prices) method, and where I am at, actually will cost you more per mile.
 
#9 ·
There are two possible issues with switching to E85, however both are really moot in most circumstances: 1) ethanol can absorb larger quantities of water into the fuel than gasoline can, leading to water phase separation, though unless your ethanol is stored in a swamp it's probably not an issue, and 2) ethanol is a solvent, which tends to eat away at certain materials used in fuel carrying components of traditional engines (which is one of the things the conversion will change, replacing natural rubbers and possibly some plastics with synthetics, etc.)

Gasoline will produce more energy per unit than E85 will, however E85 has a higher activation energy so it can withstand higher temp/pressure combinations (FI) that would require additional octane in gas.

I would hypothesize that Max-Q saw a gain in the Vic because the car was able to pull more timing using E85 and gain a bit more power over 87 octane pump gas.

Also, the addition of gas to the intake charge would cool it through vaporization also, though since E85 is less volatile it would (theoretically) be able to absorb more heat energy from the incoming air.
 
#11 ·
Im converting without a "conversion kit". Which I personally think is a waste of money. With the maggie, at WOT, my stock 42# injectors are only using 50-60% of their duty cycle. E85 requires about 30% more fuel which will still allow me to use my injectors. I am adding an external additional fuel pump to assist. My tune and timing will be adjusted to accommodate and I will not be switching back and forth.
 
#16 ·
Stock injectors are 28# the injectors that come with the Maggie kits are 42#. Just clarifying for any stock guys that think the stock injectors will be ok with E85 (they will not). Even with the 42# injectors I would still get something bigger if you are FI. If for no other reason that one day you will want to increase the boost since you have the higher octane fuel.
 
#12 ·
E85 is going to net lower mpg than standard gasoline. That's why winter formulated gasoline results in cars running lower mpg. I used to see it all the time when I lived up north. I consistently lost 2-4 mpg with the 10% ethanol gasoline formulation. The scam is they increase the ethanol content, which drives up the octane rating, so they don't have to include the same octane modifiers, but then they charge more for the fuel anyway, plus you have to fill up more frequently.
 
#13 ·
Max-Q....I looked into it as part of a future mod but havent yet done so. I plan on doing this a little later this winter.
 
#14 ·
I should add, I'm at 5300 feet elevation and this is not my daily driver so I really could care less about gas mileage. Adding this disclaimer as it was part of what contributed to me proceeding with moving over to E85.
 
#22 ·
Lets not forget cooler IAT's too if I'm not mistaken, but Randy is right with boost, timing etc. That od crank is like 550 bucks right? Hmmm. Would that work with the 2.6 pulley or is that too much?
 
#23 ·
Yeah, the last time I checked, ECS wanted $550 for that pulley. Too much, IMHO, but when you're the only game in town ...

At 5300 feet above sea level, I'd think that if you could get away with no slip, the 2.6" drive pulley AND the ~8" crank pulley would still keep you safely away from the estimated max crank HP (~625-ish +/-) level for our stock bottom-end motors and definitely give you a great kick in the pants upon throttle opening.

Now that the $270 crank pulley is vaporizing in my plans, I may go this ECS pulley route. My biggest hesitation is that my car runs so-o nicely right now ... no driveability or reliability issues at all and plenty of power (for an old man). I'd kind of hate to take a big hike through mod hell and get lost in there. :mad:
 
#26 ·
Where I get it (E85), its right at $2.00 per gallon. They range (in my area) from $1.80-$2.20.
 
#27 ·
Are you sure on this price??
And I did notice that the E85 was being compared to 87 oct.
Why not compare the E85 to 93 oct? - Not 87 oct.
Also, there is an availabilty issue w/E85
Are there any long term issues concerning the use of E85??
Maybe the results would change your minds.
 
#31 ·
Gasoline's stoichiometric air-fuel ratio is 14.7; E85 is 10.
E85 is corrosive . It's corrosive to aluminum. That higher oxygen content has its benifits for power, but oxygen likes chemical reactions.
E85 is more hygroscopic than gasoline. "got water"?
There are no long term studies of E85's effect to automotive engines, but the outlook should be favorable by way of the 'cooling effect'.
Gasoline has 109k to 119k BTU's/gal. @60 degrees.
E85 has 80,950 to 82,450 BTU's/gal.
E85 will give you approx. 28% less miles/gal.
But, since you'll be packing in more to make-up for the BTU lost, you will actually produce more BTUs, ie, Latent Heat of Vaporazation, antiknock, density of mixture, etc.
There are no E85 stations within 40 miles of me, but here is a link. Just plug in the fuel you are looking for; http://www.afdc.energy.gov/stations/
:hmm:I think I'll stay with the E10, but keep us posted. This will be educational.
good luck
 
#33 ·
I've been reading a lot on e85performance.net. It seems there a a lot of FI guys who are running e85 with a lot of success.

Here's a quote from a supercharged Cobra owner-

"Just a little update on my 04 Cobra since I started running E85 in July.

I have nothing but great things to say about it! I am currently running 20 psi on my car and 23* timing and the car loves it!

Since I have started running it here in Dallas, I have switched dozens of Cobra owners over to it.

A good friend of mine used to run 100 Octane Sunoco GT260 fuel for $5.99 per gallon. He switched over and picked up over 100 RWHP and 100 RWTQ in the midrange and his car makes over 700 RWHP with a bolt on Whipple 2.3 and 2.75 upper only pulley!

This stuff is truly amazing! My only regret is not switching sooner!

Just thought I would share."
 
#38 ·
Im dropping mine off here in a few hours to do the conversion. We are adding an external in line fuel pump, converting to e85 and dyno tuning it. So in a few days here (probably after Christmas), we should have some real world experience and numbers to report. I'll start my own thread when she's done!
 
#43 ·
I don't see anything in that post about ether, otherwise known as starting fluid. That is what I am curious about. I know it has a flash point much lower than gasoline, but I am wondering what that flash point is, as well as how much energy it contains compared to gasoline.
 
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