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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Which supercharger would you recommend? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; After seeing the post about East Cost Super Charger. I checked their website out tonight and they list just about ...
  1. #16
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    After seeing the post about East Cost Super Charger. I checked their website out tonight and they list just about every S/C I've ever heard of including the wipple(spelling?).

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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    CAL

    How do I send a PM? If I click on your handle, it tells me I don't have permissions.

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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    Scott, do you have private messaging turned on in your User CP?

  4. #19
    BeagleBrains is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    www.whipplesuperchargers.com
    At present, the only GM Engines fitted are Vortec V8s.

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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    If one were creative, a Whipple from a 4.8, 5.3 or 6.0L Vortec truck application would bolt right onto the LS6. Some possible issues one may run into are the drive belt alignment, air intake tubing, etc.
    Whipple for LSx Truck Engine

  6. #21
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen P.
    Superchargers usually increase given engine Horse Power by about 33%. There is a Supercharger that will increase Horse Power by 50%. It is the Whipple Supercharger. The reason is that Whipple builds a Screw-Type supercharger compressor which operates adiabatically. This means the pressure increase is achieved with almost no increase in temperature. The best way to increase horsepower is to inject a cold air charge. The specific power output is raised. Just installing a lower temperature thermostat will give a cheap power increased. However, your engine computer is deceived to run as if your car is operating from a cold start continuously. The computer will set timing inappropriately, increasing emissions. When the older design lobe type superchargers increase inlet pressure, they significantly raise air charge temperature. This greatly reduces the effective gain since the hotter air charge is less dense, limiting the relative gain.
    I believe that Magnuson uses Eaton automotive blowers that are twin screws that have been around quite a while. The benefit of the twin screw (used industrially and in a lot of refrig compressors) in auto service is that volume is proportional to engine speed and the screws will increase head at any throughput to their design point. Industrially, these units are positive displacement blowers and we put PSV's on the dscharge

    As for low temp rise, you need cooling to get isothermal operation (nature's laws not just BS). Adiabatic means no heat external heat removal and all inefficiencies of compression are carried by the gas - hence a temp rise. You can minimize (but never eliminate - mom nature again) with a high efficiency compressor. Therefore, all compressors without coolant injection or interstage cooling are adiabatic.

    I would stick with a screw compressor over a centrifugal because of efficiency. Eaton's are used by GM for Buick and mine has 100K and runs great.

  7. #22
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    As for low temp rise, you need cooling to get isothermal operation (nature's laws not just BS). Adiabatic means no heat external heat removal and all inefficiencies of compression are carried by the gas - hence a temp rise. You can minimize (but never eliminate - mom nature again) with a high efficiency compressor. Therefore, all compressors without coolant injection or interstage cooling are adiabatic.
    I agree completely. Positive displacement superchargers are more efficient than centrifugal types but there is still a significant temperature rise dependent upon the compression ratio. Depending on the boost (>10 psi), an intercooler is usually required to optimize engine output.

    I too have experience with roots type Eaton superchargers with air to air intercooling and have put nearly 90,000 miles on my T-Bird SC with absolutely no problems. Only maintenance is changing belts and checking/adding synthetic lubricant to the sump. Also, with the air discharge bypass the engine hardly knows the supercharger is there until you need it.

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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H
    I too have experience with roots type Eaton superchargers with air to air intercooling and have put nearly 90,000 miles on my T-Bird SC with absolutely no problems. Only maintenance is changing belts and checking/adding synthetic lubricant to the sump. Also, with the air discharge bypass the engine hardly knows the supercharger is there until you need it.
    I have 155k on mine, report the same.

  9. #24
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    So how about this option - ok you'll need a different hood (but that could also be a good thing) and yes I know this isn't Supercharging, it's a Twin Turbo mated to a CNC intake manifold with integrated water intercooler sitting on the LS6. The gold outlets will be plumbed to the heat exchangers for the ultimate in turbo cooling! Work in progress....
    Attached Images

  10. #25
    baf_ctsv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    As superchargers go, he most seamless would have to be Roots type. Typically they will simply "shift" the torque curve up the graph at all but the lowes and highest RPM ranges. What this means is the engine simply behaves like it is a larger engine, no lag , to drama , just usable HP. More importantly than the type of Chager is the need for an intercooler. Hot air is bad and all superchargers heat the air as they compress it. The Timing can actually be pulled back so far that the engine will loose usable HP at some RPM ranges.

  11. #26
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    I wonder about just adding a S/C to a stock aspirated engine. On my Buick, the compression ratio of the S/C version is only 8.0 but I believe that a standard 3.8 V6 has a higher ratio. The S/C engine gets a little more HP but much more torque at lower RPM. That's why I bought the car. I've surprised people that a Park Avenue at 2 tons can get to 45-50 MPH pretty quick for its size.

    Now, I'm sure that GM/Cadillac didn't make the drive train any more robust than it had to be (ie, very little contingency or over-design to save $$) and are probably good enough at their trade to design that close to power demand. I would want to know that anyone recommending a S/C mod for the V has done the calcs or has a s**t-load of experience on the same engine. Otherwise, it won't be wheel hop that drops the drive train on the pavement at the strip.

  12. #27
    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    FYI the Magnusson is not a "Screw charger" like the Whipple, the Magnusson/Eaton blower is a hybrid-Roots Blower (Slight screw shape, but that's for sideways breathing, a true roots blower takes air from the top and ejects it out the bottom). The Difference is the Eaton makes boost by pumping more air into the intake than the motor can digest, thus creating boost. However an intake manifold is not designed for compressing air and as such roots blowers are the least efficient. Centrifugal chargers are more efficient as they make most of their boost along the impeller blade as it gets "compressed" by the air behind it in an ever decreasing space until it is folded into the snail shaped housing of the blower assembly. This is slightly more efficient than a roots. The most efficient is the Whipple since the screws are mechanically creating an air chamber that is compressed along the length of the screw.

    So order of efficiency:

    Roots
    Hybrid-Roots (Magnusson)
    Centrifugal (Turbos, ATI, Vortech, etc)
    Whipple

    so which would I buy? The Eaton Magnusson. The reason being:

    Reliability: I've installed a few kits in my time and the Magnusson is a well designed kit. I put a Whipple on a Miata, and the kit did not 100% properly align the pulleys causing side load on the nose housing. Result: we had to replace 3 compressor housings in one year. After the third we got rid of the kit. The Eaton/Magnusson goes on like an OEM part and is the most Hassle free supercharger I've ever had experience with.

    Power: The Centrifugal chargers make boost at high RPMs, as such they will make more peak power, but in a Daily driver it's total power I'm more interested in. The Eaton makes power from Idle on up and has a much more robust power band, even if it lacks the dyno bragging rights.

    There was once a time a judged the quality of a kit based on Dyno graph alone, since then I've learned (the hard way) that a mild kit can be 100% more enjoyable because it works, you don't have to muck with it, and it seamlessly integrates into the total performance envelope of the car. Don't get me wrong I do love Vortechs, etc, but my experience with them is that you always have to worry about some little niggle.

    Anyhow just my two cents.
    your mileage may vary

  13. #28
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    You nailed it on the head Shinkaze. Eatons come from the factory on Fords and GM's with nary a peep of problems. The other brands of superchargers are afterthoughts, not integrated systems like the Eaton.

  14. #29
    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthV
    You nailed it on the head Shinkaze. Eatons come from the factory on Fords and GM's with nary a peep of problems. The other brands of superchargers are afterthoughts, not integrated systems like the Eaton.
    Thanks, just to add to that too, another issue is complexity. ATI and Vortech systems do make more power, but they are much more complex. Less integration and more complexity means more problems both in installation and ongoing maintenance. Learned that the hard way too when I redid my nitrous system. I had a very simple wet system for 10 years that gave me no problems on 3 different cars. Then I decided to go all out and added a progressive controller, RPm window switch, low fuel cut-off, purges, remote bottle opener etc. Because of the RPm switch and progressive control I was able to add a lot more nitrous. However, because of all the extra complexity, crap broke, sometimes wouldn't work right, and tracking down electrical problems was a nightmare.

    Lesson learned? KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid)

  15. #30
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    Re: Which supercharger would you recommend?

    I would really like to thank everyone for your input! Due to your suggestions/thoughts/experience/etc., I've found a local shop in NJ (East Cost Supercharging) that has significant experience supercharging LS engines and also I've shifted my thoughts on S/Cs from Vortech or ATI to Magnusson.

    Shinkaze your two cents are directly in line with Chris' from ECS. I was a little concerned about the hybrid Magnusson having only heard that from one source (being Chris at the time), but your input raised my comfort level. I’ve also received a similar recommendation today from Thunder Racing.

    Chris from ECS is supposed to call me back when he gets a date on the Magnusson (he's thinking the next few weeks). And he's guessing in the $7K – lower $8K range. I also asked him about a group purchase like several of us did with BMR. Anyone interested?

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