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Got the KW Variant3s (V3s) installed today

52K views 223 replies 33 participants last post by  AAIIIC 
#1 · (Edited)
Yesterday I dropped the V off to have KW coilovers put in. I went to the Met game last night, and it wasn't ready before I left, so I picked it up before work this morning.

First impressons... much better then before, but I didn't really know what to expect. Steering feel is amazing, but I feel the bumps in my ass and legs through the seat. I'm sure it's just me being anal, and it will go away with time, I just have to get used to the sensitivity. On the highway the car feels like butter. Pavement to bridge transitions are non existant, and it's really smooth versus what I expereinced at low speeds.

I was able to take a jug handle that I am very familiar with, and was surprized at how little to no body roll there is.

The car's stance has been lowered 1"

There was a problem though. When going to do the alignment, the rear toe adjusters were frozen. They were able to heat the right and get it moved, but the left is done. Luke if you are reading, I need two... So the car's not 100% right and I didn't want to totally push it.

One thing, or question I have is about the end links. They said when they were going to put on the links, they are too short??!! I know the are much shorter then stock, but I figured lowering the car would make the difference. Maybe the sway bar is upside down. They explained it to me that attatching it would put the bar at a wierd angle. Is that right? Expert opinons welcome.

I was only able to snap this pic with the camera phone for now, but here's what the kit looks like... I bout it from a local VW/Audi tuning place that was on the KW website as an authorized dealer (peace of mind).




 
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#106 ·
wow.. how do the tires look.. any uneven tread wear?
 
#108 ·
No problems. Alignment is off just ever so slightly.

I'm going to install the endlinks this spring when it gets warmer. I finally solved the banging in the suspension... bad sway bar bushings, again.:banghead:
 
#110 ·
Someone please give this guy a ride in a lowered V.
 
#113 ·
Anytime I'm in a mod hell foray in the driveway lilg comes over and adds the extra hands at the precise moment needed. He also beat me off the line on Monday so he deserves it.

I saw someone poast on the forum not too long ago their ride height after lower their car. I decided to go see where mine was. (I never checked after they were installed assuming everything was fine) All four corners are different. I figure no big deal, they settled differently. Well it is a big deal, to me atleast. With no lift, I have to constantly jack the car up and down, take wheels off and remeasure all the time.

For instance fronts were 25.5" on the left and 26.25 on the right. I figure no prob, just lower the right 3/4 an inch. That's not that easy and takes up alot of threads moving the spring. So I finally move it about the desired amount measuring with the wheel off the 3/4 of an inch on the threads of the shock. Now the left is lower then before. So I attempt to move it up the desired amount. Well same story with the two rear sides, but they were like an inch off. I try to move the one side up and the other down. All it really seems to do is change how the fronts are height wise now also.

WTF am I doing wrong? It's taken me a few hours, wheels on, off, car up, down, lug nuts.... It's getting annoying and I want to button this up already. Thanks.
 
#114 ·
I saw someone poast on the forum not too long ago their ride height after lower their car. I decided to go see where mine was. (I never checked after they were installed assuming everything was fine) All four corners are different.

For instance fronts were 25.5" on the left and 26.25 on the right. I figure no prob, just lower the right 3/4 an inch. That's not that easy and takes up alot of threads moving the spring. So I finally move it about the desired amount measuring with the wheel off the 3/4 of an inch on the threads of the shock. Now the left is lower then before. So I attempt to move it up the desired amount. Well same story with the two rear sides, but they were like an inch off. I try to move the one side up and the other down. All it really seems to do is change how the fronts are height wise now also.
I'm a bit late to the party, but have a few comments.

First, measure ride height from the center of the wheel up the fender lip. That way it doesn't matter what wheels/tires you have on the car - the reference measurement is still the same. If you're tires are running a little low on air (or maybe you just got off the highway after an hour and they're a little high on air) it will affect the ride heights a little if you measure all the way to the ground.

When you are adjusting ride heights, keep in mind that you're moving weight around the 4 corners of the car. That's particularly true if you're making big height adjustments (like 3/4 - 1"). If you're just fine tuning a 1/4" or so, you probably wouldn't be seeing the ride heights changing at each corner.

Last but not least, keep in mind the suspension needs to settle a bit each time you jack it up and then put it back down. Open the door, stand on the door sill, and pump your body up and down (you know, like you used to do as a kid standing on the bumper of the car to drive your parents or your siblings nuts :p) to get the suspension to move a bit up and down. That should help.
 
#115 ·
Thank you. So I'm not really messing it up, it's just natural? I wanted to mess with this again a little tomorrow, but I'm thinking of just bringing it to the guy who put it together. Now it pulls way to the right too. I thought it would be easy / simple, but obvi not.
 
#117 ·
You've changed the ride heights enough that you've almost certainly thrown the alignment off, which could be why it's pulling.

also consider your surroundings as far as pavement. it's almost impossible to have an even amount of pavement where you show an even ride height all the way around.
When I want to get a (reasonably) accurate height measurement and don't have a (reasonably) level garage handy, I go to a gas station. The concrete pads around the pumps are pretty level, better than just going to a random section of parking lot or a typical driveway at a house.

get it on a lift, make your adjustments, count the threads on the sleeve from the bottom up and assure the counts are even for your fronts and rears, and call it a day.
:confused: I wouldn't expect to have even spring perch heights on each side of one end of the car, and I certainly won't have even spring perch heights front and rear. The corner weights are substantially different, which means each spring is holding up a different amount of weight and will compress a different amount.

Keep in mind the KW coil-overs don't have the double height adjustability that I think you're playing with on your coil-overs. The rear KWs aren't even coil-overs, they're just 60mm diameter springs in the stock location with adapters.

and wow, last time i measured my car from the middle of the fender to the ground it was a hair over 23". bring those KWs doooown. :p
:rolleyes: Only if he wants to ruin them by bottoming them out. And for those of us who truly drive our cars :p, going that low would be impossible. After a couple of track days, this is what the tops of my fender liners look like:


That passenger side one is actually worse now after 2 days at the Shenandoah Circuit running the Karussell. I'll have to replace that one soon, as it's about to fall apart.
 
#116 ·
also consider your surroundings as far as pavement. it's almost impossible to have an even amount of pavement where you show an even ride height all the way around. get it on a lift, make your adjustments, count the threads on the sleeve from the bottom up and assure the counts are even for your fronts and rears, and call it a day.

don't ask me how i know.

and wow, last time i measured my car from the middle of the fender to the ground it was a hair over 23". bring those KWs doooown. :p
 
#119 ·
I was wondering why one side I can measure say 2 3/8" from the spring perch to the bottom of the threads and the other side 3+ inches. I think I'm gonna give it another go tomorrow before I hand it over. I'll definitely need to measure from from the center of the hubs. I have a gas station right near my house and will do that there. What are you running at, from your hub to fender AI?

23" dayum. At 25.5 or lower I rub the fender and get a high pitched screetch when I go up curb cuts faster then a crawl.
 
#121 ·
Went and did some remeasuring on a few different "flat" surfaces, and the fronts measured around 13 3/8 and the back comparable. Not much higher. Now I just need it to drive straight, and I'll worry about lifting it up when I get back after Vday. Thank you very much for your help / advice!
 
#123 ·
No one can disagree your car is slamed. That tuck is crazy. Just guessing, you may have really firm springs and your shocks set tighter. Not arguing, just guessing. I for one can't drive like that, but that is one low bucket! You are also riding on 20s. Maybe it's the FL sunshine, but your car looks so blue.
 
#124 ·
I'm not here to argue about anything, trust me. I just know it can be done, so for one to say it can't I only feel obligated to prove otherwise in the event that someone would actually like to accomplish something similar. just ask ferny, although he just cut the shit out of his, lol.

i've always thought my car was more blue than "gray".
 
#126 ·
Got my KW set from Fed Ex today and threw it on in a few hours. Thanks for the write up everyone who contributed! Everything went very smoothly, piece of cake!

As said before, the kit is of very good quality, and the handling is greatly improved. I didn't want it too low so I just dropped it an inch all the way around. Maybe its just in my head, but with the suggested settings the car feels like it rides much better than stock (this might be because my FE4's are probably originals with 60k on them).





Before:


After:

 
#129 ·
Excuse my ignorance...they come with new shocks and springs? I've never looked into KWs but I feel my stock shocks will be dying soon.

Looks great.
 
#132 ·
Excuse my ignorance...they come with new shocks and springs?
Yes, just like the other coil-overs out there.

Nice. Do you know what length and stiffness springs those are up front and rear? Noticed there's some sort of a perch/mount on the rear so I'm guessing shorter springs.
Fronts are 10kg/mm with helper springs. I don't remember what length they are. Rears are 9kg/mm and I want to say are 250mm long. The perch/mount is an adapter to fit the 60mm spring in the stock location. Here's how the stock and KW springs compare:
 
#130 ·
Smart mod. Good move. Looks great.
 
#131 ·
Nice. Do you know what length and stiffness springs those are up front and rear? Noticed there's some sort of a perch/mount on the rear so I'm guessing shorter springs.

My own penske review is coming up shortly. :)
 
#134 ·
Yup, as AAIIIC showed, they are quite a bit shorter. As for the size and spring rate:

Front
Rate: 100 N-mm or 571 lb/in
Length: 200 mm or 7.9 in
ID: 70 mm or 2.8 in

Rear
Rate: 90 N-mm or 514 lb/in
Length: 250 mm or 9.8 in
ID: 60 mm or 2.4 in

Excuse my ignorance...they come with new shocks and springs? I've never looked into KWs but I feel my stock shocks will be dying soon.

Looks great.
Again, as AAIIIC answered they do come with both. The shocks are adjustable for rebound and compression and completely rebuildable with just a new cylinder I believe. Also, for the price they aren't too far off a new set of FG's and GC.

where did you order them from and how much?
They were 1750 shipped (that's with paying cash and a short shipping distance). If anyone wants to know who, just PM me. The prices are substantially lower than KW's minimum advertising price I would assume. :shhh:
 
#138 ·
Michael, you know me too well! Thanks. Also, I have been over some roads in bad shape, and it really doesn't feel bad at all! I think you should get a set :stirpot:. Even if the height wasn't adjustable, I would still buy this kit again, the handling is so much better! Thursday I went up to the parents (they live a few thousand feet up into some local mountains) for Thanksgiving on the stock suspension. Today I went up again with the KW set up. I felt so much more confident and the car felt so much more planted. Worth every penny IMO.

Its no track, but its fun times!


Are you planning to corner balance the V now with the KW's on them?

AND

Are you planning to open track the V?

...looking for open track comments of KW Var 3's....

--Jerry
I will be corner balancing it now that I've done some reading, this is new to me, No corner balancing on the GSXR :hide:. But, it looks I will need a scale set and a laser level. Here is a nice one I'm looking at http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ICP-170125?autofilter=1&part=ICP-170125&N=700+115&autoview=sku. Anyone in Cali want to go Halfsies?? Or does anyone know if a set like this can be rented somewhere? I'll buy it if I have to....but I would prefer not to. And I can see how this would be beneficial, but it is going to take a lot of time! After jacking up the V and adjusting the height, it takes some driving and time to fully settle the suspension it seemed. I think I will have to weigh it, adjust it, drive it, wait a day and then start over until I get it balanced correctly.

I will be tracking it for the first time either January 8th or 9th at Streets of Willow in Rosamond, Ca. You should come out!
 
#141 ·
The $200 for the corner balance sounds great! I would prefer to do it myself just because I'm weird like that, but the 1k for the scales is a little steep.....I'll have to research the renting option or maybe just bite the bullet and get them.

Since I installed the KW myself, the $300 sounds like a lot, but as they say, time is money and the install took me about 5 hours. Fortunately, I had fun doing it.
 
#143 · (Edited)
I didn't use a lift, just a jack and two jack stands.

You will need a spring compressor set for the front. You will want one of this type http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/atd-7561.html. If you don't want to buy it, you can rent one from pep boys (it's basically free if you return it in working condition).

An impact wrench makes things quicker, but it is not necessary.

Check out the DIY by AAIIIC and the GC one. Combine the two and you're basically set! If you decide to do it yourself let me know and I'll post a few time consuming (edit: saving) methods.

Finally, being able to drink helps but the swearing was not needed here! For headers/cats yes, I said words I didn't even know existed haha. Trust me....if I could do this job it should be fine for anyone else. To give you an idea of how new to car mods I am....when I read about jacking up the cradle to relieve tension, I had to google "cts-v cradle" to see what a cradle was.....
 
#145 ·
Can you get higher spring rates upon initial purchase?
 
#147 ·
Not sure, but give KW USA a call and ask. Their customer service was good when I called.

Yup, as AAIIIC showed, they are quite a bit shorter. As for the size and spring rate:

Front
Rate: 100 N-mm or 571 lb/in
Length: 200 mm or 7.9 in
ID: 70 mm or 2.8 in

Rear
Rate: 90 N-mm or 514 lb/in
Length: 250 mm or 9.8 in
ID: 60 mm or 2.4 in

I notice that KW is running the firmer spring up front and the softer one in the rear. GC is the opposite. A while back there was much debate about whether the softer spring should be at the front or rear.
As I've read (and it makes sense to me from a physics standpoint), "The relative stiffness between front and the rear determines how weight is transferred during cornering, and so affecting understeer/oversteer bias. The stiffer end gets more weight transfer, and consequently loses grip compared to the other end".

So, all the things being equal, if the front spring rates were higher than the rears (instead of the opposite situation) the tendency to oversteer should be reduced. Does this seem logical?

Also, to fully understand relative spring rates (front to rear) I'm assuming one would need to understand roll center as well (http://www.neohio-scca.org/comp_clinic/hand_out_reprints/Vehicle Dynamics2007.pdf). I was reading some things by Mark Daddio (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-daddio/10/ba4/559 this guy has won all kinds of SCAA solo championships among other things) and he was answering why so many coilover systems had stiffer springs in the front....it went way beyond my current level of understanding. But I'm getting there.
:cookoo:
 
#154 ·
Would look better a little lower in the front, give it that raked look.

Some google searches.....here are some thoughts.
Spring rate is the amount of force it takes to compress a spring 1-inch. Wheel rate is the spring rate actually measured at the wheel. Both are expressed in lb/in. The spring is not always directly inline with the wheel contact patch on both the front and back ends of the car, such as the case of our cars in the rear. Suspension geometry is a little bit different in the front than the back. All I know is that the differences in the front and rear spring rate are not always the same relationship when comparing the wheel rate. To determine the actual spring rate at the wheels ("wheel rate"), the leverage of the suspension arm has to be taken into account. Since the rear springs are further inboard they probably have an even greater disparity between front and rear wheel rates. The rear wheel rate would be even less than the 571 - 514 spring rate spec from KW. Do we know why that would be a bad thing? You would be surprised at the differences in wheel rates from front to back on most cars.
I see what you're saying. All the work on the car has been totally doable for me so far except welding (my welds are HIDEOUS), tuning the motor next month and now maybe the suspension adjustments. Installing it was easy, but I think I will leave the rest to professionals. Just so many variables to account for and the scale set up is a little pricey. I found a great shop out here in LA that will do the corner balancing and 4-wheel alignment based on my driving style. I think I will do this once the MM's are in next month.
 
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