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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2 in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; A lot of newbies could benefit greatly from reading this thread. There is more useful information in it than all ...
  1. #76
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    A lot of newbies could benefit greatly from reading this thread.

    There is more useful information in it than all other threads combined.

    Excluding 814's thread, of course. Don't F with megan.

    I wonder what is up with that LS6 V on the dyno. The tune is richer than NAF. Who's car was that?

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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by 6Speed View Post
    I am surprised you think I meant A GMC Yukon Denali by saying that LS6 folks are in denial.

    Look an ls6 engine is AWESOME but I am not ashamed of my LS2. Besides I think an LS2 takes less maintenance and is a pretty dependable and tough powerplant hence it was used in all those vehicles. You guys talk a lot of shit about the LS2 but (here's the DENIAL part) the LS6 is just a worked over LS1 baby!! Just like the LS7 is a worked over LS2!! C,mon people say some intelligent crap please. Tell me that what I just said is not true.


    PS: I'm just trying to have a little fun with this thread LOL no offence!!

    First of all let me say no offense taken so dont take offense to this lol You do realize all of the LSx engines are basically the same? The architecture of the engine is the same. Yes there are little things here and there but in no way is one more reliable than the other. The only real difference between the ls2 and the ls6 is the engine bore, cam, the fact that the ls2 went to a 58 tooth reluctor over the 24 for better resolution. Thats about it. It uses the same 243 cast head. It has a smaller cam, and a bigger bore. All of the above can be changed to to make one better than the other. They are all great engines because they are all the same. Nobody should be ashamed of any engine they have in their V. Its just a friendly rivalry between two different engines. Big deal.

  3. #78
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by CTSV_510 View Post
    There is more useful information in it than all other threads combined.

    Excluding 814's thread, of course. Don't F with megan.


  4. #79
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Ahybody remember when the last time an LS2 guy posted here?
    Or do I have to do a search?
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    First of all let me say no offense taken so dont take offense to this lol You do realize all of the LSx engines are basically the same? The architecture of the engine is the same. Yes there are little things here and there but in no way is one more reliable than the other. The only real difference between the ls2 and the ls6 is the engine bore, cam, the fact that the ls2 went to a 58 tooth reluctor over the 24 for better resolution. Thats about it. It uses the same 243 cast head. It has a smaller cam, and a bigger bore. All of the above can be changed to to make one better than the other. They are all great engines because they are all the same. Nobody should be ashamed of any engine they have in their V. Its just a friendly rivalry between two different engines. Big deal.
    Well put.

  6. #81
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2


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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    First of all let me say no offense taken so dont take offense to this lol You do realize all of the LSx engines are basically the same? The architecture of the engine is the same. Yes there are little things here and there but in no way is one more reliable than the other. The only real difference between the ls2 and the ls6 is the engine bore, cam, the fact that the ls2 went to a 58 tooth reluctor over the 24 for better resolution. Thats about it. It uses the same 243 cast head. It has a smaller cam, and a bigger bore. All of the above can be changed to to make one better than the other. They are all great engines because they are all the same. Nobody should be ashamed of any engine they have in their V. Its just a friendly rivalry between two different engines. Big deal.
    How about 78mm TB on Ls6 and bigger badder 90mm TB on Ls2

  8. #83
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    First of all let me say no offense taken so dont take offense to this lol You do realize all of the LSx engines are basically the same? The architecture of the engine is the same. Yes there are little things here and there but in no way is one more reliable than the other. The only real difference between the ls2 and the ls6 is the engine bore, cam, the fact that the ls2 went to a 58 tooth reluctor over the 24 for better resolution. Thats about it. It uses the same 243 cast head. It has a smaller cam, and a bigger bore. All of the above can be changed to to make one better than the other. They are all great engines because they are all the same. Nobody should be ashamed of any engine they have in their V. Its just a friendly rivalry between two different engines. Big deal.
    I think that everyone here understands that. As for me, I'm just horsin' around. They're both great engines in my book.

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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by biiz1957 View Post
    How about 78mm TB on Ls6 and bigger badder 90mm TB on Ls2
    The bigger bore TB is a nice addition but if you were to search around you would find the LS6 intake actually flow more air with its 78mm mouth than the LS2 because of runner design. The LS2 intake is junk. No offense. An LS6 intake will always bring more money then the LS2. If you spend much time over at LS1tech there are a bunch of flow charts and dynos about the two intakes. An LS6 will actually run worse with the LS2 intake.

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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    An LS6 will actually run worse with the LS2 intake.
    What he meant to say is "not so awesome".
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  11. #86
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    The bigger bore TB is a nice addition but if you were to search around you would find the LS6 intake actually flow more air with its 78mm mouth than the LS2 because of runner design. The LS2 intake is junk. No offense. An LS6 intake will always bring more money then the LS2. If you spend much time over at LS1tech there are a bunch of flow charts and dynos about the two intakes. An LS6 will actually run worse with the LS2 intake.
    Oh Really

    400 HP is ridiculous for the amount of internal changes found in the LS2. It is actually a hot rod Z06 motor in sheeps clothing.

    A quick comparison: 2004 Z06 (Ls6) has a smaller throttle body-76mm vs. 90 mm for the 2005 C6 (Ls2). The Z06 has a 5.7 liter motor vs. the 6.0 liter LS2. The intake manifold has been redesigned to accomodate the better flow characteristics of the throttle body, and the heads are also improved from a port configuration standpoint. i.e. a ported LS6 head. The compression ratio was automatically increased with the new swept volume from the additional displacement and Z06 combusion chambers to 10.9:1 vs. 10.5:1. Iridium plugs, and hotter coils mean better combustion.

    Bigger fuel injectors than the 2004 Z06 with four hole injectors are rated at 4.1 g/s vs the older 3.67 g/s (both at 400 kilopascal or 58 psi rail pressure)

    The Z06 heads being utilized flow 15% more air on the intake side, and 21% more on the exhaust port side. 2.00"/1.55" valves are the same steel valves as the LS1. but the springs are Z06.

    The exhaust manifolds flow 4% better than the Z06 exhaust manifold (our dyno testing in 2001 suggested that shorty headers vs. the LS6 headers, showed zero improvement in horsepower or torque, so GM has done some homework here) with the straight through mufflers reducing backpressure 10%, and now no pup cats! Finally. No A.I.R. pump! Bay to bay breathing as in the Gen III Z06, has been a part of the LS1 and LS6 for a few years now.

    The cam used is the 2001 Z06 cam, with a .525"/.525" lift (2004 Z06 cam is .555"/.551" and similar duration, so here you can subtract 10 RWHP, for the C6 with the same head port design, but with the increase port flow, the actual loss from a lower lift may be insignificant. We have the present Z06 cams, ready to install as soon as our C6 comes in.

    They have also gone back to the lower tension rings found in the 2001 Z06, but without the oil consumption problems, which means less frictional losses. Anodized ring lands, may help strengthen the lands, but not from forced induction senarios. I am very disappointed that forged pistons were not used.

    GM would have you compare the LS2 to the LS1 to keep the Z06 hot rodders happy, but the truth is out there. The real comparison should be the LS2 vs. the LS6. The LS2 is the new KING of horsepower, no matter how GM spins it.

    With all of the above changes to the basic Z06 platform, do they expect anyone to believe that there is only 5 HP LESS than the Z06...???

    From a marketing standpoint, it would kill the remaining 2004 Z06 sales, if the new C6 became available with 420 advertised HP.

    And there is more

    With the LS2 bolted into the engine stand and all other systems ready to go, the baseline pulls were made. No surprise--the LS2 is a monster in small-block clothes. A whopping 402.1 hp at 5,300 rpm banged out for peak hp. There was already 330 hp available at 4,000 rpm--or in that transition area where you go from trucking around town to stomping the competition in the next lane. One of the first observations you make when you drive an LS2-equipped musclecar is that it sure doesn't feel like "just a small-block." The GM engineers have packed a ton of torque into this thing, and on our baseline engine dyno runs, the LS2 kicked out over 400 lb-ft from 3,000 rpm on up. It peaked at a ridiculous 437 lb-ft at 4,300 rpm, but the real story is that the torque starts early and just doesn't stop coming on. The torque curve is flat, juicy, and willing to please.One important note--we used the factory GM calibration for this baseline test. Dan points out that that is important because the factory spark tables are based on airflow. As such, the stock computer tends to pull timing (stock GM timing for this engine runs right at 28 to 29 degrees) when it senses an increase in intake air or decreased backpressure with a better exhaust. (This also tells us that bolt-on exhaust and cold-air kits will need a companion tune to maximize horsepower.) Because of this, Dan estimates another 10 to 15 hp could be left on the table with the stock LS2 because there was timing getting pulled during our test runs. Still, you've got all of the factory-advertised horsepower and then some! With that promising start, we got on our way to looking at what simple, basic hotrod modifications will do for the new standard in Corvette horsepower.

  12. #87
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Dude I can barely read what you typed. Did you copy and paste parts of that from somewhere? I'm confused.

    The LS2 the king of HP? Na. The LS6 isn't either.

    The LS3 > > > > > > LS2 or LS6

    We'll ignore the LS9, LSA and LS7 for now.

  13. #88
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Quote Originally Posted by biiz1957 View Post
    Oh Really

    400 HP is ridiculous for the amount of internal changes found in the LS2. It is actually a hot rod Z06 motor in sheeps clothing.

    A quick comparison: 2004 Z06 (Ls6) has a smaller throttle body-76mm vs. 90 mm for the 2005 C6 (Ls2). The Z06 has a 5.7 liter motor vs. the 6.0 liter LS2. The intake manifold has been redesigned to accomodate the better flow characteristics of the throttle body, and the heads are also improved from a port configuration standpoint. i.e. a ported LS6 head. The compression ratio was automatically increased with the new swept volume from the additional displacement and Z06 combusion chambers to 10.9:1 vs. 10.5:1. Iridium plugs, and hotter coils mean better combustion.

    Bigger fuel injectors than the 2004 Z06 with four hole injectors are rated at 4.1 g/s vs the older 3.67 g/s (both at 400 kilopascal or 58 psi rail pressure)

    The Z06 heads being utilized flow 15% more air on the intake side, and 21% more on the exhaust port side. 2.00"/1.55" valves are the same steel valves as the LS1. but the springs are Z06.

    The exhaust manifolds flow 4% better than the Z06 exhaust manifold (our dyno testing in 2001 suggested that shorty headers vs. the LS6 headers, showed zero improvement in horsepower or torque, so GM has done some homework here) with the straight through mufflers reducing backpressure 10%, and now no pup cats! Finally. No A.I.R. pump! Bay to bay breathing as in the Gen III Z06, has been a part of the LS1 and LS6 for a few years now.

    The cam used is the 2001 Z06 cam, with a .525"/.525" lift (2004 Z06 cam is .555"/.551" and similar duration, so here you can subtract 10 RWHP, for the C6 with the same head port design, but with the increase port flow, the actual loss from a lower lift may be insignificant. We have the present Z06 cams, ready to install as soon as our C6 comes in.

    They have also gone back to the lower tension rings found in the 2001 Z06, but without the oil consumption problems, which means less frictional losses. Anodized ring lands, may help strengthen the lands, but not from forced induction senarios. I am very disappointed that forged pistons were not used.

    GM would have you compare the LS2 to the LS1 to keep the Z06 hot rodders happy, but the truth is out there. The real comparison should be the LS2 vs. the LS6. The LS2 is the new KING of horsepower, no matter how GM spins it.

    With all of the above changes to the basic Z06 platform, do they expect anyone to believe that there is only 5 HP LESS than the Z06...???

    From a marketing standpoint, it would kill the remaining 2004 Z06 sales, if the new C6 became available with 420 advertised HP.

  14. #89
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    >

  15. #90
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    Re: 2006 dyno results and 2004 Ls6 vs 2006 Ls2

    Well that certainly settles it.

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