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63K views 391 replies 69 participants last post by  nickweems 
#1 ·
Okay four broken diff's later and no factory warranty on number 3 or 4, I have to find a fix. I broke my last diff about two weeks ago along with the drive shaft and both axles (half shafts)........who wants to know what the parts bill was? I have been running the KARS III kit and it has helped minimize the hop but not eliminate it all together, Well I bought a new carrier and put the KARS kit on minus the carrier bracket (due to the instant whine) put UUC diff bushing in and I believe I cured the hop all together but not with the KARS kit or the bushing. I had custom half shafts made which was GM's fix for the 2009. I'm not sure anyone has figured this out yet. Used was a larger diameter shaft on the left side. These axles use bigger stronger 108mm cv with chromoly cage and race set. The axles are designed to twist at different rates thus reducing the stress on the rear diff and completely eliminating wheel hop. I will put this new product to the test and keep everyone updated. The half shafts are a direct bolt in and swap right in with no other mods. The same design is used by Underground Racing on there world record setting Viper and will support over 1000hp. Kit will run $1800 which is about $200 more than replacing the factory axles from Cadillac, and if we can get together a group buy of 5 sets or more I'm sure we will get a significant discount.
 
#188 ·
darkman said:
Actually, my question had nothing to do with either you or the other guy in this transaction. My question went to whether the Moderator has the authority to pick the winner in an ongoing, ostenibly "free market" transaction as opposed to the customers making that call.
I didn't "pick a winner"- dynojetman stepped up and joined as a vendor, which is required to solicit business on this forum. If anyone else wants to sign up as an Authorized Vendor and arrange a group buy on these axles, they're more than welcome to.

n2ojunky said that he wasn't looking to make any money, and my post was simply meant to say "Thanks, but you really don't need to since someone else is already doing it." At no point have I prohibited him from signing up and selling anything- I just don't see the point in two people selling the same product from the same manufacturer at the same price, as all it would do is cause confusion on the forums, slow down shipment of the axles from the manufacturer, and make it take longer to get a full list for a GB.

You're absolutely correct that since I sold my V, I'm not a potential buyer. That means that everything I'm doing in this thread to recruit a vendor and get these axles made is for YOU GUYS.
 
#189 · (Edited)
n2ojunky said:
Here's what getting under my skin, lets say in the beginning my intentions were to market these axles for DSS and make a buck or two in my pocket for a long awaited fix for all of us V owners. I started the thread, you hijacked it the day you joined the forum (24 hours ago) and are now looking to be the one who makes a profit.
No offense, but that's the risk you run when trying to sell something on-line. You posted some vague info back on the 18th as a tease, but couldn't or wouldn't get videos and detailed info up. In the meantime, someone who already knows the product and has a billing and distribution system in place signed up as a vendor and provided all the info people wanted. If you'd waited to post up until you had all your ducks in a row then he wouldn't have had the ability to "beat you to the punch", but he did.

You're still welcome to sign up as a vendor and sell these axles if you want- no one will stop you, as that wouldn't be fair. It also wouldn't have been fair for us to stop dynojetman from doing so.

Let's face it- if we're really talking about 20 bucks profit each, what's the big deal? This is the most exciting thing to happen with the V's in ages. We've ALL been waiting for this if it turns out to be THE fix. Let's not screw it all up by bickering over a 10 or 20 bucks per order.
 
#190 ·
No offense, but that's the risk you run when trying to sell something on-line. You posted some vague info back on the 18th as a tease, but couldn't or wouldn't get videos and detailed info up. In the meantime, someone who already knows the product and has a billing and distribution system in place signed up as a vendor and provided all the info people wanted. If you'd waited to post up until you had all your ducks in a row then he wouldn't have had the ability to "beat you to the punch", but he did.

You're still welcome to sign up as a vendor and sell these axles if you want- no one will stop you, as that wouldn't be fair. It also wouldn't have been fair for us to stop dynojetman from doing so.

Let's face it- if we're really talking about 20 bucks profit each, what's the big deal? This is the most exciting thing to happen with the V's in ages. We've ALL been waiting for this if it turns out to be THE fix. Let's not screw it all up by bickering over a few hundred bucks.


Thank you! Very well said.. I am the one that did all the work here.. I have the first V in America without wheel hop with pictures / vids to prove it. I think I earned this.. Don't you think?
 
#192 ·
we talked about this earlier.. 2 things..

1. these new axles are both made with different heat levels to " twist " at different rates.. having a stock axle in there will make the DSS axle not work right.

2. The stock axles don't hold up to 800 HP.. You are just going to bandaid your car by doing that.. I think it will HELP the wheel hop if you do it this way, but it wont cure it.. I am sure of it. The axles are made in pairs for a reason.
 
#193 ·
Just to make things crystal clear here:

Neither myself or the forums is endorsing one person over another. The facts (right now) are that the first person who signed up as an Authorized Vendor is dynojetman, so at THIS POINT IN TIME, as per forum rules, he is the only one in this thread authorized to be arranging a group buy.

Anyone else who would like to sign up as a Vendor to offer any products or services is welcome to.
 
#200 ·
I should make some axles out of 2x4's, and sell em for half the price. "Budget wheel hop fix". One will be maple, and the other redwood ;)
 
#207 ·
im confused here...


n20junky- people asked you for info, vids, pics etc and you bitched at those who asked for it. so now you are giving the guy who provided all of the things you refused to and did so by only being asked by fellow forum members. even the dss offered him as someone to ask questions to. i fail to see how you are helping anyone by complaing after someone came in here and did what you haven't been able to do.

darkman- why are you stirring up so many issues? what is your motive for doing so. all you people that have had v's since they were new and never bother to come up with a fix for the hop, even though it bothered you should be the first people in line to be happy for something like this. are you even going to buy these?

rest of forum- why is everyone looking for extra videos then the ones he has managed to post up so far. flying out to test drive his car? are you people serious? if we wait for that then this will never happen. who goes to a aftermarket vender to test drive their product before buying it? did you guys do the same with the kars kit which hasnt fixed the hop?

these axles work for many other applications that have a smiliar issue to us. he posted before and after vids. what else are we looking for?


sometimes the things on this forum make me want to bash my head against a wall
 
#208 ·
...
darkman- why are you stirring up so many issues? what is your motive for doing so. all you people that have had v's since they were new and never bother to come up with a fix for the hop, even though it bothered you should be the first people in line to be happy for something like this. are you even going to buy these?
I only have two issues.

The first one is simply that we had two potential vendors bidding down the price, when lighting struck from above and one vendor was effectively told to step aside. That struck me as being right out of the Dick Cheney school of business where monopolies, oligopolies, and no-bid contracts are acceptable substitutes for an otherwise free market. That issue has been resolved since one of the vendors has left the building.

The only other issue is whether these axles are in fact stronger than stock. That issue is pending more information.

And yes, if these axles are stronger than stock (2007 version, which I already have installed on my 2005) I intend to buy them.
 
#211 ·
Lawlz. Then sit back and wait to see if the people who are willing to pony up are satisfied buyers.

Some folks stand in line to be the first to own the iPhone, while others wait to see what bugs will be worked out of the first run. You're the latter. ;)

eta: which isn't a bad thing. :)
 
#213 ·
"Buyer beware" - Keep in mind, I am definitely not bashing this product, I really want this whole thing to be our (community's) magic fix.

I agree with this assessment. I feel like I got really hosed on the 561 Wheelhop Kit that I have to be a bit wary of things like that in the future.

Also, I think DoctorNick probably will be able to get there and test these before I will be able to manage it. Let's hope for the best, no matter who goes.
 
#219 ·
You've never hopped your V?! I admit to not being the roughest driver in the world, but I got caught up in a "spirited contest" a few times and had it bounce my teeth out on the 1-2 shift.
Nope, I never had a problem with hop at the 1-2 shift or in 1st gear for that matter. I do not go WOT in 1st until the clutch is fully engaged and the car is rolling. I also don't do WOT in 1st on wet, pot holed, or bad pavement. (As a motorcyle rider I can report that the traction at most city signaled intersections is non-existent due to the oil/coolant/AC drainage left by cars.)
 
#220 ·
I have never experienced hop either, so all this talk got me curious. Tonight on my way home from softball I pulled off on a side road and put some rubber down. I was able to spin for as long as I wanted with no hop. I know fresh blacktop isn't as sticky as VHT treated drag strip, but my car will never be on a drag strip. I am running KDWs so I don't know if that factors in, but I think I am good for now.

I still like to see this axle stuff happening as I enjoy having options.
 
#221 ·
I will give 10 for the tickets, but it seems to be a good fix from the videos.
 
#222 ·
Denver is only about 100 miles from me. Tickets from there to Salt Lake are about $100. I don't have a video camera or anything though.
 
#224 ·
as the usual quote is "when pigs fly" after seeing videos of a silver pig flying [down the track] and no turbulence during take off, i'm a believer! I'm in on the first batch :highfive:
 
#226 ·
I know this eliminates wheel hop as the OP said but is the rear itself still weak? i like to shift i mean i don't WOT but i slam gears hard will the axles take up the stress or is the diff still prone to break.

** Currently car down with a blown rear :thepan::histeric: **
Just an example on a closed course :thepan:
 
#227 ·
I know this eliminates wheel hop as the OP said but is the rear itself still weak? i like to shift i mean i don't WOT but i slam gears hard will the axles take up the stress or is the diff still prone to break.
The newer version differentials are not prone to breakage at rational horsepower levels. These axles, by curing wheelhop, should extend the expected life of the differential in any event.
 
#236 ·
Darkman, they are stronger. Simple as that. If you dont take their word for it, then dont buy them. Plenty of other people here are going to. Get over it. If you cant understand the metallurgy and tempering of different metals and how it affects them, then dont assume they are weaker. I think its pretty damn obvious they are stronger in general. Even in a worst case scenario the shaft is technically weaker than stock (which they arent), then apparently all of the other parts of the axle clearly make up for it. Videos prove it. We will have somebody coming out there just to get a 3rd opinion as well. The problem here isnt the product at hand. Its the fact that all us V owners have been reluctantly plagued with wheelhop and blowing costly diffs for the last 5 years, that we cant fathom the fact there is a cure finally after millions of trial and errors. Wake up, smell the coffee, take shower, jerk one off, and be stoked that we have a fix finally. I nearly crapped my pants when I saw the videos and i got butterfly's in my stomach just because i KNOW these will work, and i KNOW that im really gonna piss my neighbors off at 3am even more hahahahaha. everybody stop fighting it and try to accept it. you are making it a pain in nathen's ass for trying to HELP us for christ's sake

:burn: :burn: :burn:
 
#237 ·
It's not just about how thick it is( or so I tell the girls), but what it's made of. 300M is nearly indestructable. I remember reading test report of a turbo desiel tank motor that used custom 300M steel pistons and they ran it purposely lean for over 24hours straight and had no significant piston damage. DSS is well known for their axles, and I trust they are infinately better then whatever the bean counters allowed in our rear.
 
#238 ·
+1, GM makes some pathetic parts sometimes. Look at our diff, cmon now do you think their axles are gonna be better? Whens the last time you looked at your driveshaft as well? 2 piece w/ a huge a$$ center support bearing with enough rubber in it to make a tire. Sad. They should have one pieced it from day one but they didnt because it would get in the way of the exhaust hahaha.
 
#240 ·
mpunklil said:
everybody stop fighting it and try to accept it. you are making it a pain in nathen's ass for trying to HELP us for christ's sake
There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking some logical technical questions before forking over $1,500. No one's "fighting" here, so just relax. It's great that you've made up your mind already, but there are others who need a little more information first.

Take it down a notch, killer. :)
 
#242 · (Edited)
"Your warranty, according to the DSS website, is for one year.

Correct the warranty is for "repair" of the item, we require the original invoice number to get a RMA for repair. The product is sent in to us. We repair it and ship it back. shipping to DSS is the responsibility of the customer and we ship it back (cont US only) free of charge


I understand that it is theoretically possible for a smaller shaft to have a higher horsepower rating based on metallurgy, but the DSS website does not claim any improved metallurgy.

Thus, the known facts are:

The DSS metallurgy info is kept in a tree by the Keebler Elf's, they also guard the nations launch numbers and the original Coke recipe along with something Bill Clinton left in the white house. Don't worry about this. It is not important and does not matter. You drink coke because you like it. You eat KFC because it tastes good & You use my axles because they WORK.. Let's just leave it at that shall we? Some things must be kept confidential.


1. The first generation GM axles (2004-2005) model years were 1 1-1/4 inches even though the GM engineers had recommended larger ones.

Please check the material this is made from, its a carbonizing or induction hardened type. its strong but brittle at the same time. normally they use a 8620 or even 1055. an easy way to describe it is its like a file, Very strong at slow and steady movement but brought past yield or shocked its broken easy. these axles also had a very bad design cage on the inner c.v.

2. The second generation GM axles (2006-2007) were 1-1/2 inches in diameter reportedly to make them stronger.

Same as above but compounded by size, keep in mind an axle need to be torsional to effective at transferring power correctly.


3. The third generation GM axles are larger in diameter than GM Generation II axles and have thicker walls. I do not have the exact dimensions but the magazine articles on the 2009 CTS-V confirm the "larger diameter/thicker wall" specs.

The term thicker walls implies a "tube design" if so it can only be on one side and to be honest not the right approach in my opinion, GKN had done tubular axles in the 80's and from time to time you would see failure in K cars or Caravans, i'm not saying its bad just that axles these days are normally designed with the original Performance/Hp of the car in mind and Not much higher. even if they are not tubular the parts will only handle so much before failure. Gm is definably one of the better axle makers when it comes to performance and the late cars may not need as much to achieve a higher strength for racing only time will tell.

4. Now comes the DSS axles - one of which is smaller than a Generation I GM axle accompanied with another axle that is smaller than either the Generation II or Generation III GM axles.

GM could not afford to make axles like we do, they also know that by not making it to strong it saves warranty issues along with promoting the aftermarket (yes manufacturers want a car you can customize also,they understand it sells more cars). We don't guess at this, the parts are engineered and then tested before anyone see's them in a car. All the parts on this system have gone thru rigorous overview and testing before they were even given out to be tested.
_______________________________________________


Anything else guys? Want me to bake you cookies or something? :histeric:
 
#244 ·
"Your warranty, according to the DSS website, is for one year.

Correct the warranty is for "repair" of the item, we require the original invoice number to get a RMA for repair. The product is sent in to us. We repair it and ship it back. shipping to DSS is the responsibility of the customer and we ship it back (cont US only) free of charge


I understand that it is theoretically possible for a smaller shaft to have a higher horsepower rating based on metallurgy, but the DSS website does not claim any improved metallurgy.

Thus, the known facts are:

The DSS metallurgy info is kept in a tree by the Keebler Elf's, they also guard the nations launch numbers and the original Coke recipe along with something Bill Clinton left in the white house. Don't worry about this. It is not important and does not matter. You drink coke because you like it. You eat KFC because it tastes good & You use my axles because they WORK.. Let's just leave it at that shall we? Some things must be kept confidential.


1. The first generation GM axles (2004-2005) model years were 1 1-1/4 inches even though the GM engineers had recommended larger ones.

Please check the material this is made from, its a carbonizing or induction hardened type. its strong but brittle at the same time. normally they use a 8620 or even 1055. an easy way to describe it is its like a file, Very strong at slow and steady movement but brought past yield or shocked its broken easy. these axles also had a very bad design cage on the inner c.v.

2. The second generation GM axles (2006-2007) were 1-1/2 inches in diameter reportedly to make them stronger.

Same as above but compounded by size, keep in mind an axle need to be torsional to effective at transferring power correctly.


3. The third generation GM axles are larger in diameter than GM Generation II axles and have thicker walls. I do not have the exact dimensions but the magazine articles on the 2009 CTS-V confirm the "larger diameter/thicker wall" specs.

The term thicker walls implies a "tube design" if so it can only be on one side and to be honest not the right approach in my opinion, GKN had done tubular axles in the 80's and from time to time you would see failure in K cars or Caravans, i'm not saying its bad just that axles these days are normally designed with the original Performance/Hp of the car in mind and Not much higher. even if they are not tubular the parts will only handle so much before failure. Gm is definably one of the better axle makers when it comes to performance and the late cars may not need as much to achieve a higher strength for racing only time will tell.

4. Now comes the DSS axles - one of which is smaller than a Generation I GM axle accompanied with another axle that is smaller than either the Generation II or Generation III GM axles.

GM could not afford to make axles like we do, they also know that by not making it to strong it saves warranty issues along with promoting the aftermarket (yes manufacturers want a car you can customize also,they understand it sells more cars). We don't guess at this, the parts are engineered and then tested before anyone see's them in a car. All the parts on this system have gone thru rigorous overview and testing before they were even given out to be tested.
_______________________________________________


Anything else guys? Want me to bake you cookies or something? :histeric:
I'm with the masked man, kemo sabe. I need to know from a technical standpoint what I'd be buying works and why it works.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that these axles have a higher torsional modulus of elasticity (i.e. they're stiffer in torsion) compared to the OEM axles because of the induction hardening and the use of a steel that has the ability to become harder using that process. AND, you're saying (implying) that, though they are more brittle than the stock axles, they are still strong enough to withstand brittle fracture in our cars with our hp. Then, the assumption is that, these axles, because they don't wind up while transmitting torsional energy, but instead more rapidly transmit that torsional energy to the wheels due to their rigidity, they effectively eliminate wheelhop. Is that right?

I don't need to know any secrets, just lay it out on why it works. Is my explanation the way you see it? I can find the bucks laying around the house here, but I gotta have some technical reason to make me a believer.
 
#243 ·
don't want to thread jack, but you can post a few pics of that badass 67 camaro
 
#245 ·
Still watching,Tony cracks me up!These guys seem to want to back up their product,I wouldn't expect them to give up trade secrets here.I ram 2 inch torsion bars with 5.5 inch cutting heads thru 4140 steel at work,sometimes 25 inches deep.Smaller doesn't mean weaker by any means,torsional strength is everything.
 
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