Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles - Page 17
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 17 of 27 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 255 of 392
Like Tree5Likes
2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Originally Posted by StealthViggen It's not just about how thick it is( or so I tell the girls), but what ...
  1. #241
    darkman's Avatar
    darkman is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Spring, Texas
    Posts
    7,062

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    It's not just about how thick it is( or so I tell the girls), but what it's made of. 300M is nearly indestructable. I remember reading test report of a turbo desiel tank motor that used custom 300M steel pistons and they ran it purposely lean for over 24hours straight and had no significant piston damage. DSS is well known for their axles, and I trust they are infinately better then whatever the bean counters allowed in our rear.
    Thanks - your discussion of 300M is the start of an explanation assuming stock axles aren't made from 300M. I stated in the original question that I might be missing some of the description first provided by the seller.

    (Just for the record for others - I put myself through college setting up and running an Warner Swasey Automatic lathe in a large machine shop (Dresser Industries) so I have some exposure to metallurgy albeit not particularly current).

  2. #242
    dynojetman's Avatar
    dynojetman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): CTS V
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ogden, Utah
    Age
    30
    Posts
    134

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    "Your warranty, according to the DSS website, is for one year.

    Correct the warranty is for "repair" of the item, we require the original invoice number to get a RMA for repair. The product is sent in to us. We repair it and ship it back. shipping to DSS is the responsibility of the customer and we ship it back (cont US only) free of charge


    I understand that it is theoretically possible for a smaller shaft to have a higher horsepower rating based on metallurgy, but the DSS website does not claim any improved metallurgy.

    Thus, the known facts are:

    The DSS metallurgy info is kept in a tree by the Keebler Elf's, they also guard the nations launch numbers and the original Coke recipe along with something Bill Clinton left in the white house. Don't worry about this. It is not important and does not matter. You drink coke because you like it. You eat KFC because it tastes good & You use my axles because they WORK.. Let's just leave it at that shall we? Some things must be kept confidential.


    1. The first generation GM axles (2004-2005) model years were 1 1-1/4 inches even though the GM engineers had recommended larger ones.

    Please check the material this is made from, its a carbonizing or induction hardened type. its strong but brittle at the same time. normally they use a 8620 or even 1055. an easy way to describe it is its like a file, Very strong at slow and steady movement but brought past yield or shocked its broken easy. these axles also had a very bad design cage on the inner c.v.

    2. The second generation GM axles (2006-2007) were 1-1/2 inches in diameter reportedly to make them stronger.

    Same as above but compounded by size, keep in mind an axle need to be torsional to effective at transferring power correctly.


    3. The third generation GM axles are larger in diameter than GM Generation II axles and have thicker walls. I do not have the exact dimensions but the magazine articles on the 2009 CTS-V confirm the "larger diameter/thicker wall" specs.

    The term thicker walls implies a "tube design" if so it can only be on one side and to be honest not the right approach in my opinion, GKN had done tubular axles in the 80's and from time to time you would see failure in K cars or Caravans, i'm not saying its bad just that axles these days are normally designed with the original Performance/Hp of the car in mind and Not much higher. even if they are not tubular the parts will only handle so much before failure. Gm is definably one of the better axle makers when it comes to performance and the late cars may not need as much to achieve a higher strength for racing only time will tell.

    4. Now comes the DSS axles - one of which is smaller than a Generation I GM axle accompanied with another axle that is smaller than either the Generation II or Generation III GM axles.

    GM could not afford to make axles like we do, they also know that by not making it to strong it saves warranty issues along with promoting the aftermarket (yes manufacturers want a car you can customize also,they understand it sells more cars). We don't guess at this, the parts are engineered and then tested before anyone see's them in a car. All the parts on this system have gone thru rigorous overview and testing before they were even given out to be tested.
    _______________________________________________


    Anything else guys? Want me to bake you cookies or something?

  3. #243
    rangerrob's Avatar
    rangerrob is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2011 Black Diamond CTS-V
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Age
    32
    Posts
    739

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    don't want to thread jack, but you can post a few pics of that badass 67 camaro

  4. #244
    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V, 2011 Cruze 1.4T 6MT
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Lyon, MI
    Age
    65
    Posts
    13,305

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by dynojetman View Post
    "Your warranty, according to the DSS website, is for one year.

    Correct the warranty is for "repair" of the item, we require the original invoice number to get a RMA for repair. The product is sent in to us. We repair it and ship it back. shipping to DSS is the responsibility of the customer and we ship it back (cont US only) free of charge


    I understand that it is theoretically possible for a smaller shaft to have a higher horsepower rating based on metallurgy, but the DSS website does not claim any improved metallurgy.

    Thus, the known facts are:

    The DSS metallurgy info is kept in a tree by the Keebler Elf's, they also guard the nations launch numbers and the original Coke recipe along with something Bill Clinton left in the white house. Don't worry about this. It is not important and does not matter. You drink coke because you like it. You eat KFC because it tastes good & You use my axles because they WORK.. Let's just leave it at that shall we? Some things must be kept confidential.


    1. The first generation GM axles (2004-2005) model years were 1 1-1/4 inches even though the GM engineers had recommended larger ones.

    Please check the material this is made from, its a carbonizing or induction hardened type. its strong but brittle at the same time. normally they use a 8620 or even 1055. an easy way to describe it is its like a file, Very strong at slow and steady movement but brought past yield or shocked its broken easy. these axles also had a very bad design cage on the inner c.v.

    2. The second generation GM axles (2006-2007) were 1-1/2 inches in diameter reportedly to make them stronger.

    Same as above but compounded by size, keep in mind an axle need to be torsional to effective at transferring power correctly.


    3. The third generation GM axles are larger in diameter than GM Generation II axles and have thicker walls. I do not have the exact dimensions but the magazine articles on the 2009 CTS-V confirm the "larger diameter/thicker wall" specs.

    The term thicker walls implies a "tube design" if so it can only be on one side and to be honest not the right approach in my opinion, GKN had done tubular axles in the 80's and from time to time you would see failure in K cars or Caravans, i'm not saying its bad just that axles these days are normally designed with the original Performance/Hp of the car in mind and Not much higher. even if they are not tubular the parts will only handle so much before failure. Gm is definably one of the better axle makers when it comes to performance and the late cars may not need as much to achieve a higher strength for racing only time will tell.

    4. Now comes the DSS axles - one of which is smaller than a Generation I GM axle accompanied with another axle that is smaller than either the Generation II or Generation III GM axles.

    GM could not afford to make axles like we do, they also know that by not making it to strong it saves warranty issues along with promoting the aftermarket (yes manufacturers want a car you can customize also,they understand it sells more cars). We don't guess at this, the parts are engineered and then tested before anyone see's them in a car. All the parts on this system have gone thru rigorous overview and testing before they were even given out to be tested.
    _______________________________________________


    Anything else guys? Want me to bake you cookies or something?
    I'm with the masked man, kemo sabe. I need to know from a technical standpoint what I'd be buying works and why it works.

    So, correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that these axles have a higher torsional modulus of elasticity (i.e. they're stiffer in torsion) compared to the OEM axles because of the induction hardening and the use of a steel that has the ability to become harder using that process. AND, you're saying (implying) that, though they are more brittle than the stock axles, they are still strong enough to withstand brittle fracture in our cars with our hp. Then, the assumption is that, these axles, because they don't wind up while transmitting torsional energy, but instead more rapidly transmit that torsional energy to the wheels due to their rigidity, they effectively eliminate wheelhop. Is that right?

    I don't need to know any secrets, just lay it out on why it works. Is my explanation the way you see it? I can find the bucks laying around the house here, but I gotta have some technical reason to make me a believer.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  5. #245
    DILLIGAF's Avatar
    DILLIGAF is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 04 ctsV platinum,maggied,rt cats,headers,corsa,stealth tune
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    kansas
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,750

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Still watching,Tony cracks me up!These guys seem to want to back up their product,I wouldn't expect them to give up trade secrets here.I ram 2 inch torsion bars with 5.5 inch cutting heads thru 4140 steel at work,sometimes 25 inches deep.Smaller doesn't mean weaker by any means,torsional strength is everything.

  6. #246
    liqidvenom is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): cts-v
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Long Beach Ca
    Age
    33
    Posts
    2,749

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    where were all these arm chair engineers during the past 5yrs the v's have been out?


    every product that comes out seems to meet some odd level of resistance.
    sts turbo kit
    centrifugal blowers
    a proper anti wheel hop solution


    all seem to work across the board for other cars yet die hard on cadillacforums.com


    honestly i would also make sure you hit up other forums that cts-v's go on. you are bound to find less hate on ls1tech.... also some of those guys would like in on this buy

  7. #247
    UnsafeAtAnySpd's Avatar
    UnsafeAtAnySpd is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): '04 CTS-V, '07 SRT8 Jeep, '86 Fiero
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,647

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by dynojetman View Post


    Tickets from there to Salt Lake are about $100. I don't have a video camera or anything though

    If it is $100.00 I will cover the whole cost for you as I promised in my earlier post.. I am sure we can find some cameras to use..
    It doesn't seem like anybody is still really interested in the 'somebody else go take a look' idea. Not sure if my opinion is 'respected' enough on here either. If it would help people commit I'd be interested in coming and checking it out. Seems cool. I don't have the money to buy them myself right now though.

  8. #248
    darkman's Avatar
    darkman is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Spring, Texas
    Posts
    7,062

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Through additional research I have learned that the 2009 V2 solution uses a 55mm (2-1/6 inch) hollow shaft on the driver's side and a 35mm (1 3/8 inch) solid shaft on the passengers side to create the assymetrical arrangement needed to decouple the wind up and release forces. Since this information was in a magazine article it must not be a deep dark secret.

  9. #249
    ctsv154's Avatar
    ctsv154 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 04 CTS-V with a little hp persuasion device
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    29
    Posts
    4,158

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    I think he was talking about DSS's axles. The actually metallurgy and processes they use to make their axles is a trade secret.

  10. #250
    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V, 2011 Cruze 1.4T 6MT
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Lyon, MI
    Age
    65
    Posts
    13,305

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by liqidvenom View Post
    where were all these arm chair engineers during the past 5yrs the v's have been out?


    every product that comes out seems to meet some odd level of resistance.
    sts turbo kit
    centrifugal blowers
    a proper anti wheel hop solution


    all seem to work across the board for other cars yet die hard on cadillacforums.com


    honestly i would also make sure you hit up other forums that cts-v's go on. you are bound to find less hate on ls1tech.... also some of those guys would like in on this buy
    Hate? Who's hating? Nobody's hating anything. When is asking a rational, logical question considered "hate?" Who the hell are you, anyway? I've waited over four years on this forum for a fix; I've seen "solutions" come and go. And, not only am I an "arm chair engineer," I'm an actual engineer ... with an actual engineering degree (plus a business degree, but who's counting), so back off. If I want to ask questions, what's it to you?!! I've modded my car and will continue to mod my car as I see fit, and nothing you of all people could say will somehow coerce me into suddenly thinking I'm wrong or out of place in asking logical, rational questions. I'm not going to plunk down fifteen hundred clams just 'cause you've got your panties in a knot.

    My interest is sufficiently piqued that I need to ask such questions. If I was disinterested, I'd move on to another thread. Isn't that obvious, or did I need to point that out to you?
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  11. #251
    darkman's Avatar
    darkman is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Spring, Texas
    Posts
    7,062

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv154 View Post
    I think he was talking about DSS's axles. The actually metallurgy and processes they use to make their axles is a trade secret.
    Well the 300M is the metallurgy, which I have also learned is a modified form the steel I once knew as 4340. Actually, once I deciphered it, Dynojetman's first description contained more information that I thought. But finding that out has required several other sources.

  12. #252
    ctsv154's Avatar
    ctsv154 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 04 CTS-V with a little hp persuasion device
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    29
    Posts
    4,158

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    Hate? Who's hating? Nobody's hating anything. When is asking a rational, logical question considered "hate?" Who the hell are you, anyway? I've waited over four years on this forum for a fix; I've seen "solutions" come and go. And, not only am I an "arm chair engineer," I'm an actual engineer ... with an actual engineering degree (plus a business degree, but who's counting), so back off. If I want to ask questions, what's it to you?!! I've modded my car and will continue to mod my car as I see fit, and nothing you of all people could say will somehow coerce me into suddenly thinking I'm wrong or out of place in asking logical, rational questions. I'm not going to plunk down fifteen hundred clams just 'cause you've got your panties in a knot.

    My interest is sufficiently piqued that I need to ask such questions. If I was disinterested, I'd move on to another thread. Isn't that obvious, or did I need to point that out to you?
    Oh snap!

  13. #253
    dynojetman's Avatar
    dynojetman is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): CTS V
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ogden, Utah
    Age
    30
    Posts
    134

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    I'm with the masked man, kemo sabe. I need to
    I don't need to know any secrets, just lay it out on why it works. Is my explanation the way you see it? I can find the bucks laying around the house here, but I gotta have some technical reason to make me a believer.
    You are asking questions that really don't matter.. Why does it matter how they work? If they work? I understand you are a technical guy and a engineer but the rest of us are not. All we care about is if it does the trick or not and this forum is getting filled with questions that has absolutely nothing to do with the axles fixing wheel hop. Regardless of what they are made out of, they work... Some of you guys are looking into this way too deep in my opinion..

    We really need to keep this simple. If you like what info I posted and how I saved you all a lot of money then buy them.. If you don't, then don't buy them. It's really that simple.. These are a LOT stronger than GM axles and they FIX wheel hop.. That is your answer and that is what I am providing you guys. The tech stuff really doesn't have anything to do with this thread and there is no reason to compare them to 09 axles, 07 axles or anything else. The fact is they do what they are supposed to do and they fix the problems you are all suffering from while offering a much better product than GM ever has.

    I don't have a gun to anyone's head, I am not forcing these down your throat.. I presented the info and let you decide if you want them. We have MANY pros to these and no cons that I can see.. That should be enough for anyone to make their decision. But I am not going to get into any more technical talk of WHY they work because quite frankly who cares, I don't care why they do their job.. All I care is I can mash the gas and go sideways and spin all day long without hop.. Thats what I care about.. The end result. BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

    I am not upset with you or anyone else asking these questions.. But they really need to stop, if you MUST know how things work call up DSS directly, but don't be offended if he tells you the same thing I just did... It is a waste of everyones time.. If you want to buy a pair of axles and rip them apart and try to figure out why they do what they do, go for it. Until then let's just agree that they are amazing and will make a lot of V owners smile when they hit the gas pedal... You are trying to dig way deep in something that doesn't need to be dug into. We need to keep it simple and save the useless tech questions. We have answered well more than enough tech questions about them from metal types to axle sizes and strength and to different size tubes.. Let's just leave it alone now. Here is the deal. 800 HORSE AXLES. WARRANTIED FOR A YEAR.. FIXES WHEEL HOP.. $1530.00.. Take it or leave it.

  14. #254
    Knuguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Cleveland OH
    Posts
    94

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    Correction: n2ojunky was never a vendor. A member (not a vendor) who was teasing information but providing no details left the building when someone else stepped up to the plate with some hard facts, pricing, pics and videos.

    Starting this thread and mentioning prices in the very first post without being a vendor would have normally been grounds for deletion, but I let it ride because a real wheelhop fix would be such a boon to the community. 10 days later we still didn't even have a picture of the axles, so mpunklil took the initiative to email the manufacturer of the axles and get dynojetman's email, then contacted him to get the scoop. dynojet came in here like a professional, ponied up for proper vendor status, posted pics, vids and prices- all within 24 hours. If n2o hadn't dragged his feet for nearly 2 weeks, he'd be the one arranging the GB right now- that's his doing, not mine.

    I suppose I could almost see your point if we were talking about a difference of hundreds of dollars between the two, but an extra 20 or 30 bucks? I can't honestly believe that there's any grief over this, but whatever. After 4 years of no good 1/4 mile times, I'm just looking forward to seeing some real drag launches.
    mpunklil contacted the vendor And I'm the guy that posted the vendor since I KNEW THIS back in December (see my posts on 12/25 -12/26) when no one cared...

    dynojet seems like a stand up guy, whats a couple bucks on $1500 like he said to cover his costs in card processing/shipping etc... it adds up

    I'll be making some calls on monday.....

  15. #255
    Knuguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Cleveland OH
    Posts
    94

    Re: Testing new fix for wheelhop: Custom Axles

    Call GM if you want to know why it works, they did the same thing in 09. Here is my take, two evenly sized axles with equal torque create some harmonic pulse that creates the hop. By making one side "weaker" the axles can not torque at the same rate and therefore no pulse to create the hop. I may not have the proper terms, but that is how I understand it to work. THere was a vid online with a GM engineer explaining this with regards to the 09 rear end. My GTO source told me the same thing, in better words several months back.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting