katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these?? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Need some help, trying to decide what cam to run, but not fully understanding the spec's on the Katech stage ...
  1. #1
    ccextra1976's Avatar
    ccextra1976 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Need some help,

    trying to decide what cam to run, but not fully understanding the spec's on the Katech stage I cam..

    here are details

    Katech
    Stage I Camshaft KAT-4074

    204 / 218 @ .050, .551 / .551 lift, 112 LSA
    Designed for substantial increase in performance while retaining awesome driveability.

    Vengeance racing VRX3 cam

    226/228 .585/.588 114 LSA.

    by quick look it seems the katech would make lower HP number... below is there dyno graph, and it show nice smooth numbers across the whole curve...

    AM I MISSING SOMETHING ??? smart cam guys please help
    Attached Files

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  3. #2
    smoothq's Avatar
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    I believe are stock cams are almost the same as the katech but we i believe have a 113 or 114 lsa. so the only difference you will get is probably about 15 rwhp going with the katech and with going with the VRX3 it has a longer duration which means that the valves are open longer meaning more air and more fuel more power. Anything under a 230/230 lift will be more than enough power down low anything about 230/230 will be more top rpm power and a little less bottom end power. the VRX3 is a great cam and you make great power and still be able to DD the car with no problems.

  4. #3
    Cowan480's Avatar
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    I do not know a lot about CAM shafts, however, I have worked a lot with Vengeance Racing and they are top of the line and second to none. I'd call Ron at Vengeance and tell him Cowan referred you to him and he can give you a boat load of information.

    Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Cowan

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    shudog is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    I like the specs on the Vengence cam, smoothq is right, the Katech cam is very close to stock specs except I believe stock LSA is 117. Regardless, doing a camswap is time & money consuming, even if you get the cam for a deal, you still pay for springs, retainers, gaskets, fluids, pushrods, etc. The Vengence cam isn't anything too radical that you'd regret, but would definitely give you a noticeable increase. I'm not sure there'd be enough increase over the stocker with the Katech to justify the time & money of a swap.

  6. #5
    shudog is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Don't forget tuning - with either cam you'll want the car retuned afterward, and that's wasted money if you aren't happy with the power gain of a more mild setup.

  7. #6
    Drago is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    +1 for VRX3. I've been running one since last spring. Good power but not too harsh on valvetrain for a DD. Added benefit is the great sound. The Katech cam is not far from stock.

  8. #7
    trukk's Avatar
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    The thing the Katech cam, and something like the Thuber Rcing CheaTR cam have going for them is that they don;t change drivablity all, and you don;t really need to replace any other bits when installing them, ( i.e. prings, pushrods, rockers, lifters, timing set/chain, etc.) Those are a great idea if you just want a nice little bump, and don't plan to do anything else ever to the car (like headers, etc.)

    Personally I'd get a custom cam speced out for your exact requirements by PatrickG over on LS1TECH. That's what I did, and ended up with a very nice cam that still idles and drives great (albeit with a bit of lope) +57 HP +40TQ. Of course I added a lot of supporting mods to go with mine, so that extra power came at an extra $$$ cost.

    My cam specs are in my sig.

    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Twin-Disk ClutchMustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now)

  9. #8
    Drago is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    True enough Trukk. Just make sure you think about your future mods and plan the cam to work the the mods.

    I was honestly a little nervous with a .600" or higher lift cam on my DD without going to the mod extent you did on the valvetrain. Really not what I would consider a significant difference between the VRX3 and the PatG cam you're running Trukk (2 degrees less intake duration, more intake lift, and 1 degree narrower LSA - just looking quickly).

    Have you had her on the track since? I suspect she runs really good. Great write-up on your install approach by the way.

  10. #9
    ccextra1976's Avatar
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Quote Originally Posted by trukk View Post
    The thing the Katech cam, and something like the Thuber Rcing CheaTR cam have going for them is that they don;t change drivablity all, and you don;t really need to replace any other bits when installing them, ( i.e. prings, pushrods, rockers, lifters, timing set/chain, etc.) Those are a great idea if you just want a nice little bump, and don't plan to do anything else ever to the car (like headers, etc.)

    Personally I'd get a custom cam speced out for your exact requirements by PatrickG over on LS1TECH. That's what I did, and ended up with a very nice cam that still idles and drives great (albeit with a bit of lope) +57 HP +40TQ. Of course I added a lot of supporting mods to go with mine, so that extra power came at an extra $$$ cost.

    My cam specs are in my sig.

    -Chris

    Chris,

    You wrote an awesome cam write-up, i read the whole thing...

    I guess I should explain more, in katech's website, when you look up any cam spec higher than the stage I cam they claim for this cam:
    229 / 229 @ .050, .576 / .576 lift, 116 LSA
    you need forged pistons...and larger vlave pockets...

    and this one is closer to the VRX3, which recommends the valve train upgrade..ie spring push rods etc...

    I guess I am not understanding what the huge difference is that requires larger valve pockets etc..with the katech..vrs VRX3 or any custom cam around that size

    so my overall goal is:

    50HP total including cam/headers...and power across the entire power range from 1,900rpm-redline...the headers i wanna run are kooks 1 3/4 without CAT's

  11. #10
    AlmostAV is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    cc you should mimmick trukks setup, its proven in our application, patrick g is a cam god. his numbers and driveability point right to your desires....thats my opinion. trukk has done the legwork, save yourself the hassle of trying to mix and match an unproven setup.

  12. #11
    GUNRDY's Avatar
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Hey Steve,

    Are you going for a cam already? Just remember a few things when looking for a cam. First of all your current cam profile is this: 551/.555 lift, 218/204 duration, 117.5 LSA.

    There are a alot of cam designs out there. they seem to have been developed over time. The GM hot cam and most of the 224 and 228 grinds were the first generation of aftermarket cams. They're proven to make decent power and the have superb street manners. Then LG motorsports(G5X1-2), Texas Speed(Magic Stick), Futral(FM-10-11) showed up with durations in the 230+ and lift breaking .600. 4th and current generations have just gotten silly 250+ durations and lift beyond .650.

    Look into each manufacturers specs listed on their website they will sometimes give you a good indicator of what kind of power that specific grind will deliver. A really good site for LS6 cam dyno result infomation is corv***eforum and ls1tech those two will pretty much answer any question you could ever think of.

    All comes down to what you prefer. I think your quest for 50+ extra Hp is easily doable with a mid range 228-230 580/590 lift cam. After having an agressive cam in my vette I wouldn't want the side to side rocking lope of a 110 LSA cam in the caddy I think it's a little odd in this car. You should definitely get Headers if your going to do the cam otherwise your just shooting your self in the foot.

    BTW, I leave for Holloman in two weeks I'll be out there for almost 3 months. Then I RNLT to Afcannonstan the end of June. we'll have to get together before then.

    Frank

  13. #12
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Quote Originally Posted by Drago View Post
    True enough Trukk. Just make sure you think about your future mods and plan the cam to work the the mods.

    I was honestly a little nervous with a .600" or higher lift cam on my DD without going to the mod extent you did on the valvetrain. Really not what I would consider a significant difference between the VRX3 and the PatG cam you're running Trukk (2 degrees less intake duration, more intake lift, and 1 degree narrower LSA - just looking quickly).

    Have you had her on the track since? I suspect she runs really good. Great write-up on your install approach by the way.

    I haven't run my car at the strip since. I've actually only been one time, and it didn't really do anything for me. I have run my car at the road course since, and it really moves now. I was able to run a 2:15 best lap at VIR, which is moving for a big tank like ours. I was hanging with vettes and 911's all weekend.

    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Twin-Disk ClutchMustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now)

  14. #13
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Quote Originally Posted by GUNRDY View Post
    Hey Steve,

    Are you going for a cam already? Just remember a few things when looking for a cam. First of all your current cam profile is this: 551/.555 lift, 218/204 duration, 117.5 LSA.

    There are a alot of cam designs out there. they seem to have been developed over time. The GM hot cam and most of the 224 and 228 grinds were the first generation of aftermarket cams. They're proven to make decent power and the have superb street manners. Then LG motorsports(G5X1-2), Texas Speed(Magic Stick), Futral(FM-10-11) showed up with durations in the 230+ and lift breaking .600. 4th and current generations have just gotten silly 250+ durations and lift beyond .650.

    Look into each manufacturers specs listed on their website they will sometimes give you a good indicator of what kind of power that specific grind will deliver. A really good site for LS6 cam dyno result infomation is corv***eforum and ls1tech those two will pretty much answer any question you could ever think of.

    All comes down to what you prefer. I think your quest for 50+ extra Hp is easily doable with a mid range 228-230 580/590 lift cam. After having an agressive cam in my vette I wouldn't want the side to side rocking lope of a 110 LSA cam in the caddy I think it's a little odd in this car. You should definitely get Headers if your going to do the cam otherwise your just shooting your self in the foot.

    BTW, I leave for Holloman in two weeks I'll be out there for almost 3 months. Then I RNLT to Afcannonstan the end of June. we'll have to get together before then.

    Frank
    thanks to everyone for the replies...I think I'm starting to norrow down my cam quest!!
    Good thing is, I will save the labor on the instal and do it myself...just need to buy the cam/re-tune/springs and pushrods..and the various odd ball parts/supplies...and the kooks headers



    Frank,

    I wanna check your car out again before you leave, some time next week...I did the katech shifter at the hobby shop and it seems to be alot louder than yours...little comparison needed...


    ya, I am going for the headers and cam already....i just need to pick which cam I want...I will check out the ones you listed and the one trukk has...seem to me for an all purpose cam in this range (228-230 580/590 lift ) is going to be the set-up I am looking for....I just need extra insurance that the mustangs see my taillights not my side markers

    and that is a long time to be in that sh!thole...good luck with that.... are you taking the V?

  15. #14
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Real men run solid lifter roller cams, only.

  16. #15
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    Re: katech vrs VRX3 Cam anyone running these??

    Quote Originally Posted by darkman View Post
    Real men run solid lifter roller cams, only.

    LOL, real men that don't daily drive their car.

    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Twin-Disk ClutchMustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now)

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