Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Class Action Law Suit Against G.m. in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; I have read on this site that the V was advertised at 400H.P. and is not near that. I also ...
  1. #1
    V-Love's Avatar
    V-Love is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    I have read on this site that the V was advertised at 400H.P. and is not near that. I also read that Ford paid out on the 99 SVT for the same thing. You tech guys should keep us(me, the layman/hellman) informed. I will file first. FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT G.M HASN'T ANSWERED ANY MAIL(of any kind) ON OUR CONCERNS!!! '05's are being built and my oil alarm still goes off. F' them all. I work hard for my car. Every payment I make I take it out on that car. Who will help? I am already copying a lot of tech. posts just in case. You guys know a lot af stuff. I thank all you tech. guys.

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    trekster's Avatar
    trekster is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    I'm willing to join in if others too.

  4. #3
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    few posts on the internet doesn't help much. You may have to have the owners gather around and actually get their cars dyno'ed all at once to prove that everyone is actually dynoing low in same condition. Also it seems like lot of your rear diff is going bad which means it can also rob horsepower. Anyways lawsuit isn't a simple thing to win against a giant corp such as gm then again, they may just settle to keep the general public happy (actually they just don't want any bad publicity)


    edit: forget chassis dyno since advertised figure is at flywheel which means engine dyno will be the key.

  5. #4
    T_Dogg8's Avatar
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil_concours
    edit: forget chassis dyno since advertised figure is at flywheel which means engine dyno will be the key.
    yeah.....if you guys went in with chassis dyno numbers, you wouldn't have a chance. i don't think anyone here has had their car dynoed at the flywheel. if someone did that, we'd know a lot clearer what's going on.

  6. #5
    globed70 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Agree with the rest... there is no factual information gained from the chassis dyno. Someone is going to have to volunteer to have their engine pulled and the full intake, exhaust, and accessory drives setup on an engine dyno. Anyone? I hear silence.

    OR...

    Perhaps... either an individual effort or through a lawyer, someone can get GM to explain the low chassis dyno numbers or provide engine dyno sheets.

    From the GM engineering press releases, the only changes to the LS6 itself are a new oil pan and moving the belts closer to the engine. So, any loss would presumeably be related to restricted intake and exhaust... which SHOULD have been identical to those used during dyno testing. Seeing that the suspension certainly wasn't the same as that used for testing, perhaps they did some late changes for intake/exhaust noise???

    Anyone dyno a late 04 or 05 to determine whether the false oil temp reading caused the computer to adjust on the majority of 04s?

    DG

  7. #6
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    5CTRVET is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Actually, in the case against Ford, it was established that a chassis dyno would be accepted. There is case law on this matter so if we, as a group, met and had our cars dyno'd at the same location, on the same day, the info would stand up in court. All that would be required is for the same procedure be followed for all tests. We could even invite GM to show with the car that they used for those numbers and see how it measured up against ours.

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    trekster's Avatar
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5CTRVET
    Actually, in the case against Ford, it was established that a chassis dyno would be accepted. There is case law on this matter so if we, as a group, met and had our cars dyno'd at the same location, on the same day, the info would stand up in court. All that would be required is for the same procedure be followed for all tests. We could even invite GM to show with the car that they used for those numbers and see how it measured up against ours.
    Btw what did Ford owners get with the lawsuit.

  9. #8
    globed70 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5CTRVET
    Actually, in the case against Ford, it was established that a chassis dyno would be accepted. There is case law on this matter so if we, as a group, met and had our cars dyno'd at the same location, on the same day, the info would stand up in court. All that would be required is for the same procedure be followed for all tests. We could even invite GM to show with the car that they used for those numbers and see how it measured up against ours.
    Yes, but weren't the Cobra owners able to show that the car had the same dyno results as the previous car? And the only thing supposedly changed was an increase in HP? We don't have a control sample like that.... but we could average the transmission losses from similar vehicles (T56 tranny) and average the LS1 and LS6 results from other vehicles and assmeble a pretty good story...

  10. #9
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    maybe not enough air is getting to the engine when running on chassis. Like that dinan article says fan makes a huge difference in chassis dyno

  11. #10
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    With the RX8 issue, Mazda gathered a bunch of cars and not only dyno tested each one, but track tested to ascertain if the advertised performance was availalbe. The result was that horsepower was down, but they stood solid on their performance specs which were eventually met and exceeded by some owners as they got to know the car. The result was the buy back offer that many of us acted upon.

    I suggest that the combination of chassis dyno's already run by owners (which IMHO indicate a 400hp engine), along with the FACT that the magazines and owners cannot achieve the performance claims, could be combined to make a case. The burden needs to be placed on GM, though I suppose a lawsuit would be unnecessary, to back up the claims. That is where issues that really matter to most of us - like wheel hop and oil temp alarms - will have to be dealt with. If GM can bring their test driver(s) to a location that we can bring our cars - and they can show us that the cars (chosen at random) do in fact perform to the numbers we expected - then no lawsuit necessary. I don't think the actual HP number is critical at this point - but the performance numbers are. The performance numbers if achieved (and I'm certaing they will achieve them) will certainly backup the advertised HP rating. Remember, there are already plenty of drag et's posted with trap speeds indicating a 400hp engine. This alone indicates that the HP is accurate. The wheel hop on the other hand, is more disturbing to me and for my vehicle, is certainly getting worse. Yes, I have done some clutch drops and I am familar with 1-2 powershifting techniques (who isn't). It has been there since day one (really, about day 6 when the car was finally broke in) but does seem to be getting steadily worse, since I can find it while powering out of corners now.

    Just my thoughts. Some of you might want to read at www.rx8forum.com for more information on how the Mazda issue was handled (parent Ford didn't want another Cobra case on their hands). But really, let's drop the lawsuit pursuit.

    Just my 1.998723647 cents.

  12. #11
    JEM
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Ah, such an American solution. A lawsuit. I'd love to see it. Please, make a big noise.

    Then I'll start looking for a silver/no-roof V for $38K...

  13. #12
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by JEM
    Ah, such an American solution. A lawsuit. I'd love to see it. Please, make a big noise.

    Then I'll start looking for a silver/no-roof V for $38K...

  14. #13
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    Thumbs down Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    I am not happy about
    • Wheel hop
    • HP( 0-60)
    • oil light
    See my post at http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15188

    I will follow this thread very closely.

  15. #14
    Cal
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    If y'all get lawyers together I will give em my info after proceedings have started. If for whatever reason the lawsuit needs bodies in Jersey (doubt it) maybe I'll throw it in. I don't think the thing underperforms in terms of HP but the performance times, perhaps.I'd like to avoid my name on any lawsuits but if it gets me free suspension/driveline mods, maybe I will do it.

  16. #15
    6104696 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.

    In most class action suits, the lawyers make millions in legal fees and the damaged parties get like a buck fifty. As a result, operating expenses for the car companies go up and therfore so do prices. You might get a used car for 38 K but you might not if GM stops making the cars if they feel that it is not worth the hassle. Courts get clogged with rich guys complaining about not enough performance in their performance cars, and real civil cases against negligent harmdoers get delayed.

    Don't know the story of the Cobra. I'm a lawyer, I respect the legal system, and I beleive everyone is free to use it. That being said, I don't see anything here that makes a lawsuit the answer.

    Doug

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