2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Class Action Law Suit Against G.m. in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Yeah, a class action lawsuit is a great idea. Maybe we can piggyback it onto the ongoing search for the ...
Most of you seem to be missing the point. We (most of us) love the V BUT the truth of the matter is that our cars can not perform as claimed by GM. This was the same basis for the Ford lawsuit. The value of the cars will not decrease if a lawsuit is filed. It didn't for the Cobras. What needs to be done to correct this is anybody's guess (new intake, reworked heads, etc) BUT it should be done by GM at their expense not ours. Would I give up my V...NO but I am disappointed that the car DOES NOT perform as GM claims it can. What if you bought a 60" plasma screen tv but when you got it home it was only 55"? Would you want it replaced with what you paid for or just bend over and say well it looks close enough!?!?!
The other issues like wheel hop and the oil reflash will eventually be resolved and could not be the basis of a lawsuit.
IMHO the legal system is clogged by all of the lawsuits that have no merit. If our courts and juries would stop awarding absolutley ridiculous settlements for equally ridiculous claims, we would be in a much better place. How about this, if you file a lawsuit against me and lose, you pick up ALL court costs?!?! This would elimnate all of the frivilous lawsuits...by the way, this is done in Canada so it does work.
OK now I was going to let this thread go on without any comment (by me) and especially since I generally agree with Reed (mrbadss) but somehow this struck a nerve with me - my comments follow
Originally Posted by mrbadss
We all know the car has wheelhop (I experienced it in a race this morning). GM will gladly put a solid rear in your car for those 1/4 mile launches... I prefer to handle better... The aftermarket WILL give us a solution, but its then your choice to take whatever symptoms come along with that (rougher ride, worse handling, etc). GM made a decision to appeal to most people they thought would be driving this car. They would have fixed it to begin with (if only to avoid this bad press) unless there was something comprimised by repairing it (i.e worse handling, part failure, etc).
I have yet to do ANY drag style launches - becuase eating clutches aren't my thing. The fact of the matter with me (and my car) is that wheel hop is now a daily driving problem and it's getting worse every day - it is CERTAINLY affecting the vehicle's handling characteristcs. I can get the wheels to hop (without WOT on a variety of dry pavement) in 1st 2nd and 3rd gears in corners and in straights - and almost at request. My wheels are hopping bad enough that the traction engaged DIC warning light comes on (almost a daily occurance). This happened twice already today (to and from lunch). The car no longer handles well, as it is fighting to keep it's ass in check. I'm starting to wonder how the rest of you V owners drive (hello - ms. daisy?) I am not pushing the limits on this car (at least not to and from lunch) nor doing ANY launch type starts - yet this issue is preventing my from enjoying the HANDLING capabilities of this car. What is it that I seem to be missing?
My hop is not that bad.. Only when I WOT from a standstill or am really racing the car (Speedshifting).... Could be alignment as suggested above... I guess I dont see wheelhop as much and I do race the car (took a CLK55 AMG this morning by 2-3 car lengths).
Has anyone thought that maybe the wheelhop is a production problem which is why it did not show up on prototype cars. When I first got my Impala SS many years ago, the rear axel on some B body cars was not aligned properly (the factory used the wrong hole which misaligned the axel horizontally). Could something similar to this be the cause of our wheelhop problem? If its that much worse with the alignment off, could be the same problem. This could explain why some people have it much worse than others (and I assume that the hop itself may mess up the rear alignment).
Ben if you have your alignment checked, let us know what happens
Ben even without FG2 I never had bad hop in daily driving, only when powershifting or drag shifting through the gears at full or nearly full throttle. Sounds like a tire/rear end issue. I'd take it into the dealer because I agree that is totally unacceptable.
Stealth, try dropping the clutch at 5-6k rpm you will lay a patch for 10+ seconds; fun!
Glad someone else can confirm the lack of wheel hop with FG2 so people can start to realize the truth that is my sermon!
I am really in the middle about what I want to happen. I don't know if the car makes 400 HP, I haven't gone to the dyno. It feels like it does.
Yes, of course I am very happy with the car. However, if a CTS-V engine is dynoed on an engine stand and it does not make close to 400 HP, I think something should be done.
What? I don't know. If it is GM handing out performance mods to increase the HP or only giving each owner $50, I will be one of them.
You never get anything for free, but if you can, AND YOU DESERVE IT, go for it. I don't know anybody who wouldn't. But if there are some who like the car the way it is, leave it alone. Don't take whatever GM gives.
Again, I am not leaning toward any way. If someone wants to dyno the engine, go for it.
ok, just a lil rant. heck, i don't even own a V but here's my 2 cents...
i still think the V has more than enough power to put other cars in their place. i also think that most engines have their horsepower measured at the engine, not at the wheel. heh, if you want a few more horses, go buy that Tornado thing that you put in the intake! i've always wanted to try one of those things. if it weren't for those dynos, everyone woulda still thought they have 400hp at the wheel. what you don't know, won't hurt you. obviously when people were test driving the V weren't saying "this doesn't feel like 400hp to me. it's weak!" because they still bought 'em for the power they had now. as long as these V's beat the AMG's and M Series, i wouldnt worry about it. oh yeah, i guess the new M5 will have 500hp. i wonder what the STS-V is gonna have, heh, cuz that's gonna be the real class it will be competing against price wise. it's funny how the CTS-V cost far less than previous M5 and still smokes it. whoops am i rambling? ok i will stop. i hope this issue will have a painless solution.
I don't have my V yet but I am not in favor of a class action law suit. From observing the posts on this web site there are obviously some very critical and discriminating people who participate in this forum. Instead of initiating a lawsuit, perhaps we should be working with GM/Cadillac by offering constructive suggestions to help them improve the V. Do we know for a fact that they're not receptive? I for one am still interested in and excited about the V and what GM is attempting to do with an image car of this caliber. We finally have an American performance sedan that can stand up to the German products. Give GM some time to work out the bugs - any new model has them. I for one would rather spend money on an aftermarket solution to boost horsepower than provide millions to attorneys who don't know a V from a VW.
The value of the cars will not decrease if a lawsuit is filed. It didn't for the Cobras.
I beg to differ, it certainly did kill the values of the year(s) in question. Subsequent year Cobras were not nearly as effected, but the value did get hit hard. The same with the RX8, which is a recent issue for comparison. The RX8 walked itself off of lots at first, but after the lawsuit, we can't give them away.
I think the thing to realize is that this represents Cadillac's first step into this "domain" in decades (probably ever), and if they "fail" through a lawsuit right off the bat, it could kill the value of the V and any other subsequent "V" cars.
Worst case scenario, 2004 and 2005 V's are devalued...
I was critical on the wheel hop and 0-60 mph times early on. Now that I've owned the car for several months they're non-issues to me. The wheel hop problem only occurs in wet conditions and I have launched the car hard in the dry with no hop problems. Perhaps my hard launch is soft compared to yours (mine = 2500 - 3000 rpm) with tires screeching for about 10 feet. The car wasn't designed for burnouts.... that would be a stupid design requirement since it only hurts performance. If a magazine was able to get a 5.3 0-60 time with apparently bad wheel-hop I'm sure a GM test driver could ring every last ounce out of this car for a sub 5 second 0-60 time. They might need to do clutchless upshifts but they'd do it and I would think they already have evidence to back up all of the performance figures they advertised.
Oil temp problem - I'm fortunate that my V doesn't have that problem and I'm sure a fix for it is close and yes it's long over due. I just can't see how you can sue for this "soon to be fixed" problem.
guys, talk all you want. but i can tell you this. this site will NOT be used as a rallying point for v owners to sue cadillac. for the most part I think the complaints are unfounded and hardly sastisfy any type of burden of proof.
cant achieve Cadillac advertised 0-60 number? no kidding, seems most car magazines never hit the manufacturers numbers. either way, my position on this is not from my disbelief of damages. what i dont want to see is a group of our members creating some sort of online audition for class-action attorneys. so like i said, talk all you want, but anything further than that will not be tolerated.
Automobile(s): 2004 CTSV(killed), 2005 CTSV(killed that too). 2004 DTS.
Re: Class Action Law Suit Against G.m.
The truth is I just want G.M. to answer questions and provide us with help when we ask. It would be good for us and them. The V is great and handles real tight. It isn't a drag car and burnouts can easily be achieved. I just want to hear from G.M. Some of the guys in this forum give me all the answers I could ever want. I am a driver and I LOVE my V. Good to read the dialouge though.
I agree with V-Love...were is GM?!?!? If they would supply some response to our concerns it would be 100% better. At most of the large C5 events there are representatives from the Corvette Team that will listen to our concerns and if they do not know the answer they will get back to you or find the person that does. We do not have this with the V. When I had my 98 C5 and noticed that the convertible top was wearing just above the windows, I pointed it out to Dave Hill at the C5 BDay Bash. Within 30 min I had 9 GM engineers/reps looking at the top. Approx a week later I got a phone call telling me to take the car into the dealer and it would be taken care of...they replaced the top and adjusted the windows. This "process" has been duplicated countless times with other "petty" issues. It just seems that GM/Cadillac does not really care. It's not going to be a law suit that brings the V-Series to and end, it will be the lack of attention that GM gives to it's biggest supporters...us the buyers of the V-Series.