Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Why the PATHETIC rwhp ?? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; This is really frustrating... Z06s dyno 350-360rwhp all day long: http://www.z06vette.com/forums/poll....lts&pollid=533 V's are dyno'ing at 310-330 rwhp: DgtalPimp: 312rwhp -- ...
  1. #1
    Dreamin is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Angry Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    This is really frustrating...

    Z06s dyno 350-360rwhp all day long:
    http://www.z06vette.com/forums/poll....lts&pollid=533

    V's are dyno'ing at 310-330rwhp:
    DgtalPimp: 312rwhp -- http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=14372
    R.Ketcham: 317rwhp -- http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=13044
    MTI: 318rwhp -- http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143117
    Moreperf: 324rwhp -- http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154088
    Cal: 332rwhp -- http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=11476

    I have read all the info on the intake and exhaust being restrictive and GM wanting to keep the interior quiet, etc. That's fine... then GM should rate the hp accurately: it's not making 5hp less than the Z06...
    The CTS-V is a 365hp car!

    I know that the LS6 motor opens up after 1K miles or 5K miles... but plenty of Z06 guys are dynoing <1000 miles, and making 350rwhp+

    What's going on here??

    At this rate, GM is going to have a class-action lawsuit on their hands... (can you say: 1999 SVT Cobra?)

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    Dreamin is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Oh... I forgot to mention the best part... I have to pay $6500 and completely void the warrentee to get to 375rwhp... 20 more than the stock Z06... and it takes: heads, cam, intake, x-pipe, programming...

    http://www.motorsporttech.com/cts-v_engine01.asp (scroll down and look at the graph)

    That's probably what Mallett is getting out of their car too

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    DgtalPimp's Avatar
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Lets make sure we are all comparing apples to apples when we talk RWHP numbers.



    On our dyno runs we need to say what kind of dyno, weather for the run (temp, barometer, altitude) where the air temp is being measured at, is a load applied to the car vs. a Dynojet that does not apply a load. I heard the altitude numbers can over correct thus producing much higher RWHP numbers when it was the computer over correcting the pull, not the car making more horse power.



    I donít have all the info about my pull, but I can tell you that it was run on a Dyno Dynamics chassis dyno, and the temp was roughly 80 - 90 that day.



    http://www.dyno.com.au/ Dyno Dynamics (the dyno I was pulled on)

    http://www.dynocomp.com/tuner.php DynoComp (Who did the pull)


    Dgtal

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    Cal
    Cal is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    You are definitely comparing apples and oranges, imo. I pulled 332 on the dyno with 515 miles, not even 1k. My biz partner has about 5k in work into his Z06 with full headers/cats/exhaust and a dyno tune and he's making 375rwhp or so.


    That 350rwhp number is somewhat flawed. Don't go by dynos, if it is a 10hp difference you can attribute that to a different drivetrain, transmission, whatever. An aluminum flywheel will give you 10hp on the dyno but 0 in real life. They also say due to error correction that dynos almost always read 8-10hp lower than the true #.

    I haven't pulled again with almost 4k miles, but I am waiting on the full exhaust before I do.

    It's a great car, it's not a Z06. Relax!

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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    80% net rwhp is realistic on a 400hp car. Others have also claimed that the IRS setup in the V also scrubs off some additional ponies. Having said that, I too wish that the V made a true 400 rwhp. Who doesn't need more power?

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    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??


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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    I now see why my RWHP was down. I was not using the correct method on the dyno.

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    GNSCOTT is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Headers and exhaust are the main problem. The LS6 has no problems breathing in, it has a factory cold air kit, it all big enough to flow air in, flowing air out is the problem. A cat back will help a little, but exhaust is at its most expanded and restrictive point (hottest) when its in the headers. You can slowly neck down your exhaust as the exhaust cools and lose no performance because as the exhaust goes from 1100 degrees at the headers to problably 150 at the tail pipes it contracts and takes up less space. Doing a cat back IMHO is working backwards.

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    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Hey Folks just registered I'm "Adam Bruce" over at Ls1Tech, and I thought you all should know I've started a new thread about this in the Auto News section of the site to track this.

    Does the CTS-V Make it's Advertised 400hp?
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...87#post1443687

    First off you need to be aware that the Corvette Z06 should dyno LOWER than the CTS-V. While it's advertised as making 5 hp more, the more traditional Front engine Front Transmission lay-out of the CTS-V is dyno proven to be more efficient. For example my 1998 Trans Am dynoed on average 10 RWHP higher than similar 1998 Corvettes (Front Engine Rear Tranny).

    I was considering a CTS-V on a fall purchase but this issue has put me on the other side of the fence. If I was you I would be vey upset about this. In 1999 Mustang Cobras were found to make 15 Crank HP lower than advertised. The Cobra owners iniated a class action lawsuit and forced Ford to either issue them a partial refund or correct the problem with free flowing heads and intake. By the above calculations the CTS-V is about 35hp shy of advertised power. GM needs to fix this.

    I check this board very infrequently so if you would like to add to my comments or refute them please do so over at LS1tech as it might be a while before I get back over here.

    -Adam

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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    HHHmm CTS-V class action lawsuit.

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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    I was always told the Rear wheel HP is 18-20% less then advertised, due to drivetrain and other stuff?? I'm not sure if this is correct, but that would put the V @ 320-328 HP @ dyno.. Someone here a few weeks ago told me about this site: http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9 .


    Good Luck,
    Joe
    New Orleans

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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    At DyynoComp the guy doing the pull said loss is common at 27%. I don't know what is common, acceptable, etc. But if we are not gettign the ponies we should, we should bring this up.


    Dgtal

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    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    20%, 27%?? Guys, the typical rule of thumb is 15% for Manuals and 20% for Automatics (due to Torque Converter losses). As I said above you should be dynoing the SAME OR BETTER than the Corvette Z06 as the Rear mounted Torque Tube tranny they use has been shown to be lLess efficient than the standard Front Engine/Front Transmission design. the CTS-V is rated 5 hp down from the Z06, but the more efficient traditional engine/transmission lay out should more than make up for that. Even if the CTS-V was equaly as inefficeint as the Z06 then you should have less than a 5 RWHP difference. The Numbers posted here are WAY more than a 5 RWHP difference.

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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by DgtalPimp
    I don't know what is common, acceptable, etc.
    Shinkaze -- I appreciate you bringing this up. Can any of you car geeks bring light to this as to what is common, factual, etc? Shinkaze this does not mean I donít believe you this means I want more experts to voice there opionion.

    Dgtal

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    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by DgtalPimp
    HHHmm CTS-V class action lawsuit.
    well i'm sure by running it on an engine dyno they can easily get 400hp out of the ls6 so i'm not too sure how effective cts-v class action lawsuit is going to end up.

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