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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Why the PATHETIC rwhp ?? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Well since a member has run a 13.3@ 108 already I entered a safe weight estimate of 4050 lbs (with ...
  1. #61
    GNSCOTT is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Well since a member has run a 13.3@ 108 already I entered a safe weight estimate of 4050 lbs (with driver) and used many HP calculators and all were in the 400-407 range.

    I beleive that I read in the RX8 forum that Any car company is allowed to be 10% off legally, and I think GM is right on.

    To compare the V to the ZO6 when splicing HP like we are is comparing apples to oranges. Try the same Dyno with ZO6 headers and exhaust on a V.

  2. #62
    Cal
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkaze
    Keep in mind the courts ruled against ford for false advertising on 15 avg HP below advertised. We're talking more than twice that here. Ford had to go back and upgrade owners Cobras and give them partial refunds, same with the RX8 when it dynoed low.

    Either the marketing or mechanicals are wrong so somone should ask Caddy to explain.

    -Adam
    Hey if you guys want to pursue something that will get me a free head/cam or something I'm all in favor, don't get me wrong.

    I just think that once more people hit dynos after 1-5k+ miles and some of the gauge/fuel issues are figured out the car will show the proper #s.

    For example, my biz partner took his Z06 with headers, cats, Borla, blackwing (intake) and a dyno tune to the dyno (same one I was on) and made 365rwhp. The engine was hot, if it had cooled for say an hour he would probably have picked up 9-10hp (just like my 2 differing dyno graphs). That's still 375rwhp where the cats/headers/exhaust should have shown a significantly higher gain over the purported 350 he should have had stock. And prior to the tune his car was running so rich it was nearly off the chart for fuel/air correction from the computer.

    What I am saying is these cars are NOT broken in, some of them may be doing single runs on a hot engine, or it could be gearing, gauges, or any number of things. Caddy has some things in the car they need to fix, no argument, but before having a little more to go on I wouldn't go paying for a lawyer just yet. I know how much civil lawsuits cost.

    note: his car had around 1k miles at the time of the dyno

  3. #63
    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    well putting the HP argument aside....regarding high oil temps
    thank GOD for Amsoil

  4. #64
    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT
    Well since a member has run a 13.3@ 108 already I entered a safe weight estimate of 4050 lbs (with driver) and used many HP calculators and all were in the 400-407 range.

    I beleive that I read in the RX8 forum that Any car company is allowed to be 10% off legally, and I think GM is right on.

    To compare the V to the ZO6 when splicing HP like we are is comparing apples to oranges. Try the same Dyno with ZO6 headers and exhaust on a V.
    GNSCOTT,
    GM rates their motors in full dress, that includes intake, exhuast, accessories etc. According to GM's materials the CTS-V is only down 5 hp from the Z06 with a CTS-V exhaust and intake.

    All,
    I'm really curious what comes of this oil issue. Does anyone know what oilpan the CTS-V uses? GTO's have been experiencing oil starvation during lateral manuevers (read: drifting) and have been popping motors even. I know the Vette uses a "winged" oil pan, while the F-Body and GTO do not,...


    on the subject of G-Techs, While their times are optimistic (from my experience) I do find they are consistantly optimistic, and thus make great tuning devices.

    -Adam

  5. #65
    StealthV's Avatar
    StealthV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkaze
    Does anyone know what oilpan the CTS-V uses? GTO's have been experiencing oil starvation during lateral manuevers (read: drifting) and have been popping motors even. I know the Vette uses a "winged" oil pan, while the F-Body and GTO do not,...
    Here's a picture of the V oil pan, doesn't appear to be winged, but could have some internal baffling?

  6. #66
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    benjet is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkaze
    All,
    I'm really curious what comes of this oil issue. Does anyone know what oilpan the CTS-V uses? GTO's have been experiencing oil starvation during lateral manuevers (read: drifting) and have been popping motors even. I know the Vette uses a "winged" oil pan, while the F-Body and GTO do not,...
    What oil issue?

    Also be aware that early Z06's had oil starvation issues (with a good number of LS6 motors replaced) as well.

  7. #67
    Dreamin is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    The V's "oil issue" is fixed via a ECU software patch... nothing mechanical...
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0pus1/c.../oilguage.html (from http://www.cadillacfaq.com/)

    The V uses a brand new oil pan... it's not the LS6 nor LS1 oil pan... no idea on internal baffles...

    And I thought early Z06's had oil *consumption* issues... they all have oil starvation issues... Z06 LS6 *much* less so than LS1... For the Z06's it's mostly limited to track events on race tires.

  8. #68
    Uber-V's Avatar
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Adam and Dreamin,

    Though I appreciate your thought provoking comments you can't accurately measure actual engine hp by chassis dyno results from this forum or any forum. Chassis dynos are comparative guide (same dyno, same time, same conditions). Put all of the cars you want to compare in the same place at the same time on the same dyno and you may have a valid answer.

    The real question here is:

    Have you driven a V or any of the cars you are comparing it to?

  9. #69
    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
    The V's "oil issue" is fixed via a ECU software patch... nothing mechanical...
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0pus1/c.../oilguage.html (from http://www.cadillacfaq.com/)

    The V uses a brand new oil pan... it's not the LS6 nor LS1 oil pan... no idea on internal baffles...

    And I thought early Z06's had oil *consumption* issues... they all have oil starvation issues... Z06 LS6 *much* less so than LS1... For the Z06's it's mostly limited to track events on race tires.
    So I guess then the question is, does Cal have the patch installed since his V is hitting 332? Do the Vs hitting 310-320 not have it installed? That would be funny if it was something as silly as a software patch. The next thing you know, cars will be getting compuer viruses.

  10. #70
    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Uber-V
    Adam and Dreamin,

    Though I appreciate your thought provoking comments you can't accurately measure actual engine hp by chassis dyno results from this forum or any forum. Chassis dynos are comparative guide (same dyno, same time, same conditions). Put all of the cars you want to compare in the same place at the same time on the same dyno and you may have a valid answer.

    The real question here is:

    Have you driven a V or any of the cars you are comparing it to?
    The real question "▄ber" is, Are you calling the validity of my comments into question because I'm not a "V" owner? Here is a picture of my Garage, you tell me if I know my way around an LS1.



    The reason I, as a non-owner of a CTS-V, even care about this issue is because I am a serious shopper considering the V (along with a C55, and M5), and considered the V a good way to save $10K over the Germans (Especially with my employee discount).

  11. #71
    Divexxtreme is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Where's my old buddy DarrellD? I'd really enjoy rubbing this thread in his face.

  12. #72
    Uber-V's Avatar
    Uber-V is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Nice garage. This is a simple question: Have you driven a V or any of the cars you are comparing it to?

  13. #73
    Shinkaze is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Uber-V
    Nice garage. This is a simple question: Have you driven a V or any of the cars you are comparing it to?
    Have I not said over a dozen times now I'm not a CTS-V owner? I wouldn't call what you get a dealership "driving" a car. FWIW though if you were expecting me to have a "come to Jesus" experience behind the wheel of the V that would make me overlook this technical issue, then I hope you are not disappointed to hear I haven't.

    Besides my subjective driving impressions have no bearing on the empirical data presented here, and that is that the CTS-V's that have been dynoed average well below norm for their advertised power levels.

  14. #74
    Uber-V's Avatar
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Empirical data. Let's just start with driving the car and the others that you compare it to - stock and same miles. Then compare the exact same cars on the same day and same conditions. Then let's do something really revolutionary: Test the cars on the same dyno at the same time under the same conditions. That's emperical data.

    I am busting your balls and I am also not convinced that this V car can really make the grade. I own a V and I am "Not Happy Yet". Other issues besides performance leave me dissapointed. The cost difference shouldn't come into play. Cadillac should be on top in every way.....period.

  15. #75
    Cal
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    Re: Why the PATHETIC rwhp ??

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthV
    Here's a picture of the V oil pan, doesn't appear to be winged, but could have some internal baffling?
    I can't wait to set those ugly cats FREE!

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