Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Here's a quick nutshell of my results. I'll post a long winded, Type A, anal retentive post after this one ...
  1. #1
    trukk's Avatar
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    Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Here's a quick nutshell of my results. I'll post a long winded, Type A, anal retentive post after this one for those interested in the gory details (I also like to have a record of the stuff I do to my car, so what better place than here.)

    Summary of Results:

    Car: Full bolton (less electric waterpump and UD Harmonic Balancer) w/ cats 05 CTS-V (LS6).

    New Cam (224/228 111+0 custom PatrickG spec) + 25% UD Balancer.

    Change:
    + 57 Rwhp
    + 45 Rwhtq

    Max:
    412 Rwhp
    380 Rwtq

    Average (2700 rpm - 6300 rpm):
    361 (+50)
    315 (+51)

    Dyno was PSI's Mustang 1100, using SAE correction. (Note: on another local Mustang 1100 (FBC's) my baseline numbers were + 23 rwhp and +15 rwtq higher, for whatever that's worth)

    ]

    Pre cam, and base-tuned cam video, cold start:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu0vfB-7U0g

    I'll try to get a warm start post final tune video up sometime soon.

    Previous post on pre-cam mods & dyno results.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822519

    Thanks to:

    Jeff @ PSI (GrannySShifting) for the install and the tune
    PatrickG for the cam spec
    A502slo, 2c5s, VetteNutz and JonCR96Z for answering a bunch of questions.
    New Era, ByunSpeed, Thunder Racing, Texas Speed & Lingenfelter for the help in purchasing

    The car runs great, and really pulls nicely now. Utterly boring details in next post.

    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

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    trukk's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Initial mods:
    - Corsa 2.5" dual Exhaust w/ H Pipe.
    - Kooks 1.75" longtubes, w/ metallic cats.
    - Lingenfleter CAI (basically a K&N filter surrounded by plastic, sealing to the hood to create a 'cool' compartment, sperate from the rest of the engine compartment.)
    - Stealth V FFV v2 (basically this is like a smooth bellows for a CTS-V. It replaces the stock squeeze tube and elbow to the TB.)

    - Nick Williams 90 MM Billet Throttle body w/ ETC.
    - Tony Mamo ported Fast 90 Intake Manifold.
    - Dyno tune by Brett @ F-Body Central.


    I'll list my new mods below, and give a quick description why I picked what I did. First though, my selection criteria:

    1) I only want to add stuff once, so I'd rather spend more now, than have to upgrade or replace later
    2) This
    car is a Daily Driver, so reliability trumps price for me.
    3) I take my car to the road course approximately 4 weekends a year. High RPM operation is a big consideration for me (see #2)
    With that in mind, here is a break down of what/why/how-much. Keep in mind that if you shop around, you may be able to get a lower price, or a package deal. Prices and web links are for info only.


    Caveat: I'm just a guy on the Internet. Below is how I came to my component choices. I think I was pretty thorough, but this may not work for you, or some of my info may not be complete. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.


    Finally, I listed out all this stuff in excruciating detail, because (well again Iím anal), but in other ďhereís my results postsĒ, I always seemed to have a lot of question on why someone chose what they did, or what the cost/part number might be etc., so I figured Iíd spell it all out. Please point out any errors you may find to help others out.
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  4. #3
    trukk's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Components:

    1) Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7 ratio non adjustable rockers.
    • Description: YT Ultra Lites are lighter than stock, and most importantly they are lighter at the end of the rocker, this making the Momentum of Inertia (MOI) less, which *should* make them more efficient than stock. Also they a 'quasi' shaft mounted. Each set of intake/exhaust valves is on it's own shaft. This makes the rockers more stable at higher RPM's. It also makes them a LOT less expensive than full on shaft mounted options. YT Ultra lites require no modification to the valve covers to fit. 1.7 ratio is the stock ration. They also offer 1.8
    • Part Number: 6645
    • Website: http://www.mphparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MM&Product_Cod e=113-6645&Category_Code=GTOLS1VLV
    • Cost: $419.99

    2) Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set (single chain)
    Description: The Cloyes stuff is very nice. Probably overkill from a chain perspective. It offers infinite advance retard capability (not it 1 degree increments like most), and is fairly dummy proof to install, unlike a lot of adjustable timing sets. The chain itself is very high quality, and negates the need for a dual roller chain. I ended up installing the cam dot to dot, so I didnít end up using the adjustability portion, however itís there for the future if I ever need it.
    Part Number: 3153A
    Website: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=clo-9-3153a
    Cost: $169.69
    Note: I couldnít find a sponsor that carried this. MODS if you know of one, feel free to substitute a link.


    3) Comp Hardened push rods (7.425)4) Patriot Gold 'Extreme' Dual springs with Ti retainers and Super 7 locks
    Description: Valve springs are a wear item, and will eventually need to be replaced. Stock design is single beehives. The patriots are standard duals. Typical beehives are good up to .6" of cam lift, above that it's good to go with a dual sprint to handle the lift, and give the proper amount of seat pressure. While dual springs are a bit heavier (more MOI), than beehives, they also have 2 springs, so if one breaks, you still have the other, to hopefully get the valve out of the pistons way if you do have a failure. If a single breaks, the probability is very high that your engine is going to eat a valve, which is 'not good'. The Ti retainers cut down on weight over the stock retainers (less MOI). Finally the Super7 locks are higher quality than stock, and better than the ones that Texas Speed includes in their springs kits. NOTE: Texas Speed and patriot both use the same spring manufacturer, so the actual springs are the same, the only difference between the two is the associated hardware.
    Part Number: 198-8501
    Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=shop&sid=815&pcid=109
    Cost: $279.99

    5) Melling high flow oil pump
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  5. #4
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Components (continued):

    2) 42lbs flow matched Lucas injectors
    Note 1: At WOT before the new install, my injector duty cycle (IDC) was at 92%. While you can go over 100%, you start going lean at higher RPM/s WOT (Bad). If also lessens the injectors lifespan running them over 100%. With my cam I will be well over 100% IDC. You can get away without this for a while, but will probably eventually need to upgrade injectors.
    Note 2: After the Install at WOT my IDC was 60%. Iím definitely not going to run out of injector any time soon.
    Description: Stock injectors are 28.5 lbs/hr at 58 PSI fuel rail pressure. I went flow matched so I know that all the injectors are flowing what they are supposed to be. New Era gave me a nice spreadsheet of what each was actually flowing (within 1% of each other). You can then put the two 'fattest' injectors in #7 and #8 cylinders, since they tend to run the leanest based on the way the intakes work on our cars. Please note that these injectors are spec'd for an Gen III LSX, which has a different injector connection than an Gen IV LSX. Also note that some injectors are spec's at 40 PSI fuel rail pressure, and some are at 58 PSI. LSX fuel rails run at 58 PSI, however you can use injectors spec's at 40. For example the ford motorsports red top 30# per hour are rated at 40 PSI, so on GM cars, they act more like a 36-38 lbs/hr injector when running at 58 PSI. I went with 42 Lbs/hr, as I don't foresee my car ever going over 500 rwhp (probably not anywhere near that but I wanted to be safe, see selection criteria #1 above)
    Part Number: ??
    Website: http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/default.asp?S=503&A=E&PKV=c5l42fm|0
    Cost: $329.95


    3) All ARP fasteners
    Description: I went with the following ARP Fasteners:
    Edlebrock LS1
    Rocker Arm Bolts (made by ARP): EDL-8597 $29.95 (shorter than normal to prevent flow obstruction) (NOTE: My installer said these didnít fit, so they didnít go on. For sale if interested )
    ARP LS1 Harmonic Balancer Bolt: 234-2503 $26.24
    ARP HP Series Cam Sprocket Bolt Kit: 134-1003 $8.88
    ARP GENIII/LS Series Small Black Timing Cover Bolt Kit: $24.39
    ARP GENIII/LS Cam retainer Bolts: 113-134-1002: $7.49

    Part Number: (see description)
    Website:
    http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...acturer&mid=15
    http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/edl-8597.html
    Cost: See description

    4) ASP 25% UD Harmonic Balancer
    • Description: The harmonic balancer on the crank shaft is 25% smaller than OEM, make it lighter (MOI), and spinning the accessories 25% slower, thus requiring less power to turn them.
    • NOTE: This will require a smaller pulley belt. Since I have a CTS-V, none of the vendors had a belt pre-sized as part of a package for me. My installer ended up needing to measure, and came up with:
    [img]http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/857/41154d1208200966accesorzy0.jpg[/img5) Cam Shaft
    • Description: Makes the valves open and close . There are a lot of options when considering a cam. How do you want it to perform (daily driver, street/strip, strip only/ max effort, road course), how do you want it to sound and idle (stock sounding, mild lope, medium lope, heavy lope/barley idles), etc. My main criteria where (in addition to my main criteria above) was good on the road course, and would I wouldn't need to replace valve springs every 20k - 30k miles (note this is a big reason I went with the higher spec Dual Extreme valve springs, which are rated up to .660 lift, even though my cam's max lift is .609.) Finally, I had Lingenfelter get Comp Cams to run the cam through their Adcole cam measurement machine after it was cut, to validate that what I ordered is what I got. The Adcole is much more accurate than a 'cam-doctor' machine. I will use this report in conjunction with the adjustable timing set, to make sure my cam is installed dead nuts.
    • CAM SPECís:



    Miscellaneous Crap:
    SDPC Cam Install Gasket Kit: KITSD51902: $61.95
    ARP Assembly Lube: 100-9903: $6.95
    COMP Cams Engine Assembly Lube 102: $8.99
    Mobil 1 x 13 Qts: $50.00
    Gallon of Distilled Water: $2.00
    Gallon of DexCool: $20.00(??)

    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  6. #5
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.

    So what's the cost:
    Parts: $2370.44
    Dyno Tune: $500.00
    Install: Cost will vary


    This install was definitely on the Ďoverkillí side of things.

    Bottom line is that the car runs great now, sounds awesome (at least to my subjective ear), and pulls very nicely. Iím definitely one happy camper.

    Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then Iím done .


    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  7. #6
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Might make a good sticky!

    Good numbers Chris! Can't wait to see/hear it in a week!


    Norm

  8. #7
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Quote Originally Posted by trukk View Post
    Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.

    So what's the cost:
    Parts: $2370.44
    Dyno Tune: $500.00
    Install: Cost will vary

    This install was definitely on the Ďoverkillí side of things.

    Bottom line is that the car runs great now, sounds awesome (at least to my subjective ear), and pulls very nicely. Iím definitely one happy camper.

    Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then Iím done .


    -Chris
    Nice.
    I'm thinking about maybe getting a cam someday. So after I learn Greek, I can read your posts, and figure out what I'll do

  9. #8
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Quote Originally Posted by trukk View Post
    Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.

    [FONT=Times New Roman]

    Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then Iím done .


    -Chris
    You do mean done with that step right? I have a feeling there may be more.

  10. #9
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Great write-up, and as I said before, very nicely done. Power gains are more than I thought, and the video clip is awesome. Who cares if you are spending the wifey's retirement, it was well worth it!
    Look like the only bolt-ons left for you are some better flowing heads, Patriot represents great value.
    I see you mentioned heads at the end of your posts, should be a great write-up for that in the near future, and try to keep it under $3K.
    Great job, you can be proud of your V, looks like you are an owner for life!!!

  11. #10
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Quote Originally Posted by onebadcad View Post
    I see you mentioned heads at the end of your posts, should be a great write-up for that in the near future, and try to keep it under $3K.
    LOL, nothing I spend on this car seems to come in under that price. Guess that's analretentive tax

    As of now I'm planning on going with AFR 205's, or maybe some trickflow's. Some Caddy lifters (of course), and then a thinner head gasket to up the compression just a hair. Depending on how long it takes to before I go to the next step, I may replace the springs at that time (depends on how many miles I rack up between now and then).

    I have a feeling though that my next big expense will be rear end related.

    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  12. #11
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    You are anal! Nice work...I'm really interested in a cam setup myself but no way can I do that install. Thinking about having it done over at Livernoismotorsports.com here in MI.

    Thanks again!

  13. #12
    Kaane is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    In a CTS-V do you need to pull the motor out to do a cam swap?

  14. #13
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Wow, nice numbers Chirs.

  15. #14
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaane View Post
    In a CTS-V do you need to pull the motor out to do a cam swap?
    Nope, radiator needs to come out, but that's about it.

    -Chris
    2005 CTS-V:No Roof|T2+Eibachs|Corsa|UUC:Shifter, 2pc rotors, B-Lines, Motor/Tran Mounts, Diff Bushings|LPE CAI|FFV IntakeTube|Hotchkis Sways|Kooks 1.75 Coated LTs+cats|KARS III |Mamofied Fast90 + NW90|224/228 111+0 XFI/XE-R .609/.588+Dual Springs|ATI 25% UD Pulley|YT 1.7" UltraLites|Melling HiFlow OP|Cloyes Hex Adjust Timing Set|Lucas 42# Flow Matched Injectors|Katech LS9X Clutch Mustang Dyno Tuned (SAE): 412rwhp / 380 rwtq
    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  16. #15
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    Re: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

    412.. to the wheels... niiice... how much is that at the flywheel? now you just need to procharge it

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