Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; OK I posted this on the BMW Forum under the M3 section too and got a pretty favorable response actually,I ...
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    Playdrv4me's Avatar
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    Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    OK I posted this on the BMW Forum under the M3 section too and got a pretty favorable response actually,I was impressed. Hopefully there wont be immediate immature attacks here.

    Anyway, I ran across a pretty impressive little sedan the other day and was doing some research on it and was pretty impressed. I had no idea this thing even existed but apparently for LESS than 40K (which is in fact less than the sticker of my 330), the new Volvo S60R packs in a 300HP turbocharged inline 5 w/295lb of torque and 1950RPM, Six Speed Manual, Limited Slip Differential, Brembo brakes, VVT, BI-Xenon headlamps, FourC Four Corner handling and electronic damping suspension and an incredible array of safety and convenience features. There are very few options, and 18 inch wheels are there too. CandD Reports a 5.5 second 0-60 time which is nary a hint slower than an M3. I have to say as much as I am drooling over getting a CTS-V in a couple of years, this car really has me wondering whether the current 10k or more price gap between this car and the M3 and CTS-V is really justified (Though it could be called a competitor for the regular CTS too I suppose).

    There are already a few going for about 39k on Autotrader brand new or with a few hundred miles on them. Volvo cant be making much money on this car and I wouldnt be surprised to see its price go up if it stays around. The reason why I posted this and not anything about the Audi S4 or others is the sheer price factor. Im impressed.

    Here is a picture and some of the features from Edmunds:




    Mechanical Features

    Engine
    2.5L displacement double overhead cam (DOHC)
    inline 5 cylinder configuration gas engine
    20 valves variable valve timing
    turbo 300 hp @ 5500 rpm
    295 ft-lbs. @ 1950 rpm premium unleaded fuel
    DriveTrain
    6-speed manual transmission all wheel drive
    mechanical center differential center limited slip differential
    Suspension
    four-wheel independent suspension front and rear stabilizer bar
    active suspension
    Instrumentation
    tachometer trip computer
    clock external temperature display
    low fuel level warning

    Towing and Hauling
    cargo tie downs

    Exterior Features

    Tires and Rims
    alloy rims 17 x 8.0 in. rims
    P235/45YR17 tires performance tires
    temporary spare tire steel spare wheel
    inside mounted spare tire
    Roof and Glass
    intermittent wipers rear defogger
    Exterior Features
    rear spoiler

    Safety Features and Ratings

    Safety
    front and rear ventilated disc brakes 4-wheel ABS
    traction control stability control
    dual front side-mounted airbags front and rear head airbags
    front and rear seatbelt pretensioners rear door child safety locks
    child seat anchors emergency interior trunk release
    rear center 3-point belt 2 front headrests
    3 rear headrests remote anti-theft alarm system
    engine immobilizer daytime running lights
    xenon high intensity discharge headlamps auto delay off headlamps
    headlamp high pressure washers Front Fog/Driving Lights

    Comfort and Convenience Features

    Front Seats
    5 person total seating capacity bucket front seats
    leather upholstery 8-way power driver seat
    height adjustable driver seat driver seat with manual adjustable lumbar support
    8-way power passenger seat height adjustable passenger seat
    passenger seat with manual adjustable lumbar support
    Rear Seats
    bench rear seat split-folding
    folding with storage and pass-thru center armrest rear ventilation ducts
    Power Features
    remote power door locks power windows
    2 one-touch power windows power mirrors
    heated mirrors
    Convenience
    cruise control speed-proportional power steering
    tilt and telescopic steering wheel audio and cruise controls on steering wheel
    front and rear cupholders front door pockets
    front seatback storage front and rear 12v power outlet(s)
    front console with storage universal remote transmitter (for garage door, security system, etc.)
    retained accessory power
    Comfort
    dual zone climate controls - driver and passenger interior air filtration
    electrochromatic inside rearview mirror front and rear reading lights
    dual illuminating vanity mirrors leather-wrapped steering wheel
    alloy and leather trim on shift knob alloy trim on dash
    alloy and leather trim on doors alloy trim on center console
    front and rear floor mats trunk light
    Memorized settings
    memorized settings for 3 drivers memorized settings includes driver seat
    memorized settings includes exterior mirrors

    Entertainment and Telematics

    In Car Entertainment
    AM/FM cassette in-dash single CD player stereo 100 watts stereo output
    8 total speakers diversity antenna

    Some options:
    High end AudioMax stereo, Navigation, and Telematics.

    Opinions?

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    darrelld's Avatar
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    OK I posted this on the BMW Forum under the M3 section too and got a pretty favorable response actually,I was impressed. Hopefully there wont be immediate immature attacks here.

    Opinions?
    Speed did a review last month, the initial impression was favorable.

    Ford is making progress with their Volvo line.

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    JEM
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    The general perception in the Euro press has been that it's a nice car but doesn't have nearly the chassis of the M3.

    All I can say about it is that it's got a wonderful interior. Great seats, good driving position, nice material quality, great colors. I haven't yet actually driven one.

    And, of course, also nice - you can get a wagon.

  5. #4
    Playdrv4me's Avatar
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by darrelld
    Speed did a review last month, the initial impression was favorable.

    Ford is making progress with their Volvo line.
    It looks very nice, but once again, this is something I would have to wait for depreciation to hit first, since I couldnt afford one right off the showroom floor even at 40k, so the long term would have to be just as good.

    But I get confused with all these aquisitions. Do you think that ideas like this are coming from the Ford side? Or do you think they are coming from Volvo engineers, and finally getting the green light from Ford execs to come HERE?

    I really wonder how Ford handles the Volvo line. The lower Jag line was revitalized by using alot of Ford chassis components and engines, but with Volvo they seem to be doing the reverse, using many Volvo safety innovations in upcoming Ford vehicles, but with no apparent changes from Ford to Volvo yet.

    What do you think?

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    JEM
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    I really wonder how Ford handles the Volvo line. The lower Jag line was revitalized by using alot of Ford chassis components and engines, but with Volvo they seem to be doing the reverse, using many Volvo safety innovations in upcoming Ford vehicles, but with no apparent changes from Ford to Volvo yet.
    The Jag S-type was developed off the DEW98 (Lincoln LS) platform after Ford bought Jag, and the Jag X-type is mostly Ford underneath (the drivetrain is borrowed from a now-defunct 4x4 Mondeo that was also the basis for the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute SUVs.) The S-type's a very nice car, but the X-type is the wrong car for Jag.

    Volvo/Ford/Mazda platform sharing is just getting started, but it's going to be pretty much across-the-board.

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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    LOL How funny. Just as I read this a Jaguar X Type commercial came on as if to say... "hey leave me alone", but I agree, the X Type is a laughable effort at best (Though speaking of the commercials they are EXCELLENT, the music is RIGHT ON, wish it was a real anthem of some sort). The roofline screams taurus, and the interior is way under par for a Jag. The S Type was an understandable effort to hit a lower market segment, but the X aims TOO low and misses. The DEW98 Platform seems to be pretty good however, with all but the Ford thunderbird being pretty successful spinoffs from the platform. I like both the LS and S type, but would definitely prefer the LS for cost and features ratio.

    On the other side of the token, I have serious concerns about the future of the Jaguar XJ and the Land Rover Range Rover. The current XJ and Range are absolutely the best of both in my opinion. This Range in fact was developed and produced during the (very) short tenure BMW had with the brand, and is absolutely spectacular. I considered trying to get a previously flooded 2003 for about 25k I like it so much, but its too difficult a process to deal with. Anyway I digress, hopefully Ford has equally sunny plans for the FUTURE of these two. I noticed they are already looking at Jaguar engines for use in the future Land Rover vehicles.

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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    The reviews of the S60R make it sounds pretty nice, sort of a bigger and more "refined" (hardcore folks would say "dulled" perhaps) version of the STI/EVO... It would certainly be a better daily driver and highway cruiser than either of those two, maybe even a bit better than the CTS-V in that regard too.

    I think the CTS-V is the more desirable car for alot of American folks (big upgradable V8, good ole tire smokin RWD, Caddy name), but like you mention, at about $12,000 cheaper than a CTS-V the turbo/awd S60R is certainly worth consideration! And being AWD is a huge plus in MY jaded eyes for real world usage! The RWD CTS-V may well own an AWD S60R on a racetrack and at a dragstrip, but in the real world I do believe the AWD S60R would have a major advantage in safety and traction...

    I'll have to check into it in depth, it sounds pretty close to exactly what I am looking for, and the EPA estimates and fuel tank size give it a similar highway cruising range to the CTS-V, which is important to me.

    I'd prefer a 2.5L turbo 4 cylinder, or better yet a 6 cylinder turbo to their odd "5 banger" , but you never know - maybe it will grow on me... like a fungus!

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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V






    I like the charcoal GRAY ones best...

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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    It looks very nice, but once again, this is something I would have to wait for depreciation to hit first, since I couldnt afford one right off the showroom floor even at 40k, so the long term would have to be just as good.

    But I get confused with all these aquisitions. Do you think that ideas like this are coming from the Ford side? Or do you think they are coming from Volvo engineers, and finally getting the green light from Ford execs to come HERE?

    I really wonder how Ford handles the Volvo line. The lower Jag line was revitalized by using alot of Ford chassis components and engines, but with Volvo they seem to be doing the reverse, using many Volvo safety innovations in upcoming Ford vehicles, but with no apparent changes from Ford to Volvo yet.

    What do you think?
    Fords statement regarding product design influence;


    J Mays is the Vice President of Design at Ford Motor Company, responsible for shaping the design direction of Ford, Mazda, Mercury, Lincoln, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. Mays joined the company and was elected to his present position on Oct. 1, 1997.

    Since joining Ford Motor Company, Mays has completed the development of several new production models including the Ford GT40, the 2002 Ford Thunderbird, and the all-new 2002 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer. He has also led the development of several concept vehicles including the Ford Forty-Nine, Jaguar F-Type, and Volvo Safety Car Concept.

    Prior to joining Ford, Mays served as Vice President of Design Development at SHR Perceptual Management of Scottsdale, Ariz. from 1995 to 1997.

    Following graduation in 1980 from Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, Calif. Mays began his career as an exterior designer with Audi AG in Ingolstadt, Germany, where he was recognized for the design of the Audi 80.

    In 1983, Mays moved to BMW AG in Munich, Germany to work on exterior design proposals for the BMW 5 and 8 series.

    Mays returned to Audi in 1984 as a senior designer. He was manager of exterior design and was responsible for developing aerodynamic research vehicles for Audi Rally/Trans Am programs. He also worked to develop full-scale model proposals for the Audi 100, Volkswagen Golf, Volkswagen Polo, and Audi Cabrio. In addition, Mays designed the Audi AVUS concept car.

    After spending the first part of his career in Germany, Mays came back to the U.S. in 1989 to work as the chief designer in Volkswagen of America's Design Center in Simi Valley, Calif.

    He worked to establish a design center infrastructure including facilities and equipment needed for development of full-scale exterior and interior models. He was also responsible for the design and branding of the Volkswagen Concept 1, which later became the new Beetle.

    In 1993, Mays returned to Audi AG in Germany as design director responsible for worldwide Audi design strategy, development, and execution, before changing the direction of his career by joining SHR.

    Mays has received numerous professional awards and recognition for his work. His design career is the subject of an exhibition called "Retrofuturism: The Car Design of J Mays" at the Geffen Contemporary of the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. He received the Harvard Design School annual Excellence in Design Award in February 2002. In September 2002, Mays received the Don Kubly Professional Attainment Award from the Art Center College of Design.

    Mays was born Oct. 15, 1954 in Pauls Valley, Okla.

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    BUILDINGCTSAMG is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    This needs to be moved.....i dont see the relevance to cts....should go in the lounge

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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    Now I am usually the first one to assist newbies when a thread doesnt belong in a particular section, but in this case the thread was meant as a competitive statement for the CTS, and because it would be CTS afficionados that I thought would really appreciate the this car. I considered throwing it in the lounge though, its a grey area post at worst in my opinion. I know my Jesse James post was the first time I ever looked in the lounge to begin with,but maybe that is the best place for it.

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    JEM
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    On the other side of the token, I have serious concerns about the future of the Jaguar XJ and the Land Rover Range Rover. The current XJ and Range are absolutely the best of both in my opinion. This Range in fact was developed and produced during the (very) short tenure BMW had with the brand, and is absolutely spectacular.
    The Jag XJ is nice - super-high-tech manufacturing and engineering packaged in a very conventional 'user interface'. Much nicer to live with than a 7er, or one of the new Audi A8/VW Phaeton devices.

    The Rangie is selling to beat the band, it outsells the 7-series BMW in the UK, and it's a beautiful piece of engineering.

    Problem is, Land Rover/Ford PAG (however you want to think of it) can't build 'em. They've got assembly-quality problems, big labor troubles at the plant in Solihull, in fact at one point Ford bruited around the idea of shutting Solihull and moving manufacturing to the Jag facilities.

    Ford's other problem is that while the Euro market wants diesels and < 3 liter gas engines, the US, Mideast, Australia and Asia want big motors, and the Jag 4.2 V8 is pretty much maxed-out. What the Range Rover needs is the 385HP Cobra R-spec 5.4-liter mod motor that Ford Australia uses in the Falcon GT, but...

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    kman320 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    I personally would easily get a M3 or CTS-V(which I am planning) over the S60R. Done get me wrong, the S60R is an amazing vehicle ,but I prefer the CTS-V over it(even if it costs more).

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    Divexxtreme is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    I like it. Looks to be a great car, especially for the price. The M3 and CTS-V would smoke it in acceleration (5.5 second 0-60 and 14.1 1/4 mile for the Volvo is significantly slower than a 4.8 0-60 and low 13's in the 1/4 mile for the CTS-V and M3, not a "hint") as well as braking and handling, but if you want a "sporty", safe and relatively inexpensive luxury car...the Volvo seems to be a outstanding choice.

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    peccles is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Volvo 300+HP S60R VS M3 VS CTS-V

    The CTS Sport showed at SEMA this year might be more comparable to the S60R.
    Not sure if it will be available for the '05 MY.

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ight=CTS+Sport

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