Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!! in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; After my first run in with those afaces at Mark Christopher, http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=49862 , I figured I would give them another ...
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    Barak is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Thumbs down Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    After my first run in with those afaces at Mark Christopher, http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=49862, I figured I would give them another shot since they are right down the street from me. This time to just replace the battery and take a look at the differential bushing for the clunk.

    When I pulled up to the service area I purposely left the vehicle in KOEO position with the lights on, because five minutes of this is all it will take to drain the battery to the point where the engine won't turn over. This has been the case for about a month now and is by no means an isolated incident. Right before I left Mark Christopher I tried to start it and sure enough it wouldn't crank, so I figured that this would be proof enough that the battery needs to be replaced. Keep in mind that on Sunday I had to call Onstar to give me a jump because the damn thing wouldn't start. Scott, the service advisor, said that they probably wouldn't be able to get to the clunk issue by the end of the day, but that was understandable since I hadn't made an appointment.

    Around 5PM yesterday I get a call from Scott saying that the battery has passed all the tests and they think something strange is going on and would like to keep it until tomorrow. I said okay, since I don't really need the car until Wednesday.

    I just got a call from Scott saying that the battery is still testing fine and that they can't duplicate the problem and for me to come pick up the car. I said why should I pick up the car when there is clearly a problem and I am just going to be left stranded again. I then told him, let's do some deductive reasoning here to figure out what the problem might be. I said clearly there is not a drain, nor are any of the cables a problem since I can start the car just fine if it sits for a week. But if I leave it with the key on for five minutes with the lights on or even just the radio on, the vehicle will not start. Scott then replied that it shouldn't be able to have the key left on with the lights on for that long (5 minutes) because there are too many electronics in the car. I then asked him if he was aware of what the reserve capacity on the battery was. He said he didn't know, but I said we can safely assume that it is about 90 minutes. I told him that means that if the alternator completely takes a crap while I'm driving at night with the lights on, that the battery alone will be able to power the vehicle for ninety minutes before it drops below the threshold voltage. He denied this as if I was making it up. He kept insisting that his hands were tied and that I would have to pay for the battery replacement since the battery tested fine. I said that the dealership should have to pay for the battery to keep the customer happy, especially considering the horrible experience I had with them before, when he told me that I would be treated like family if I gave them another chance; so he's a liar also. He said that he would test it one more time and try to replicate the problem that happened a day earlier.

    He called back a short while later and said that the battery tested fine and started even with the key on with the lights on and radio on for five minutes. I then suggested that they test a failed battery and use the ticket from that to replace mine under warranty. He said that's dishonest and it's stealing. I said no, it's customer service. He said no that's thievery and I want to sleep well tonight. He then said I am going to refer you to the service manager and I said please do. He then said he's not at his desk right now. I asked him what his name was and he said Dave something. I said Dave, that was the guy that approved of the "fix" last time I brought my car to Mark Christopher and he's a total joke. I said well that says a lot about the operation over there; is there anyone that is even half way competent?

    After I got off the phone with Scott, I immediately called Kyle Hulings, a GM customer service representative, whose phone number I got from this forum from a person having a similar issue. I'm actually on hold with him right now as I'm typing this, as he is calling Mark Christopher to get the other side of the story. So far he has been absolutely great to deal with.

    I just got off the phone with Kyle and he said that he was put on hold and transfered all over Mark Christopher until he finally got Scott's voicemail. Kyle said that this will be his primary focus for the next 24 hours and he will get back to me as soon as he can.

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  3. #2
    LV_V's Avatar
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Hopefully all works out for you. I hope Kyle can light a fire under the service manager's ass; seems that most of them need it, especially mine...

  4. #3
    Katech's Avatar
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barak
    After my first run in with those afaces at Mark Christopher, http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=49862, I figured I would give them another shot since they are right down the street from me. This time to just replace the battery and take a look at the differential bushing for the clunk.

    When I pulled up to the service area I purposely left the vehicle in KOEO position with the lights on, because five minutes of this is all it will take to drain the battery to the point where the engine won't turn over. This has been the case for about a month now and is by no means an isolated incident. Right before I left Mark Christopher I tried to start it and sure enough it wouldn't crank, so I figured that this would be proof enough that the battery needs to be replaced. Keep in mind that on Sunday I had to call Onstar to give me a jump because the damn thing wouldn't start. Scott, the service advisor, said that they probably wouldn't be able to get to the clunk issue by the end of the day, but that was understandable since I hadn't made an appointment.

    Around 5PM yesterday I get a call from Scott saying that the battery has passed all the tests and they think something strange is going on and would like to keep it until tomorrow. I said okay, since I don't really need the car until Wednesday.

    I just got a call from Scott saying that the battery is still testing fine and that they can't duplicate the problem and for me to come pick up the car. I said why should I pick up the car when there is clearly a problem and I am just going to be left stranded again. I then told him, let's do some deductive reasoning here to figure out what the problem might be. I said clearly there is not a drain, nor are any of the cables a problem since I can start the car just fine if it sits for a week. But if I leave it with the key on for five minutes with the lights on or even just the radio on, the vehicle will not start. Scott then replied that it shouldn't be able to have the key left on with the lights on for that long (5 minutes) because there are too many electronics in the car. I then asked him if he was aware of what the reserve capacity on the battery was. He said he didn't know, but I said we can safely assume that it is about 90 minutes. I told him that means that if the alternator completely takes a crap while I'm driving at night with the lights on, that the battery alone will be able to power the vehicle for ninety minutes before it drops below the threshold voltage. He denied this as if I was making it up. He kept insisting that his hands were tied and that I would have to pay for the battery replacement since the battery tested fine. I said that the dealership should have to pay for the battery to keep the customer happy, especially considering the horrible experience I had with them before, when he told me that I would be treated like family if I gave them another chance; so he's a liar also. He said that he would test it one more time and try to replicate the problem that happened a day earlier.

    He called back a short while later and said that the battery tested fine and started even with the key on with the lights on and radio on for five minutes. I then suggested that they test a failed battery and use the ticket from that to replace mine under warranty. He said that's dishonest and it's stealing. I said no, it's customer service. He said no that's thievery and I want to sleep well tonight. He then said I am going to refer you to the service manager and I said please do. He then said he's not at his desk right now. I asked him what his name was and he said Dave something. I said Dave, that was the guy that approved of the "fix" last time I brought my car to Mark Christopher and he's a total joke. I said well that says a lot about the operation over there; is there anyone that is even half way competent?

    After I got off the phone with Scott, I immediately called Kyle Hulings, a GM customer service representative, whose phone number I got from this forum from a person having a similar issue. I'm actually on hold with him right now as I'm typing this, as he is calling Mark Christopher to get the other side of the story. So far he has been absolutely great to deal with.

    I just got off the phone with Kyle and he said that he was put on hold and transfered all over Mark Christopher until he finally got Scott's voicemail. Kyle said that this will be his primary focus for the next 24 hours and he will get back to me as soon as he can.
    Do you know what amperage that 90 minutes of reserve capacity is at?
    Also how many amps your vehicle draws KOEO?

  5. #4
    Luna. is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    LMAO--I swear--I thought you were referring to my battery problem several weeks ago as I was reading this..

    I am not at all kidding when I say the (near) EXACT same thing happened to me, save for I was at a dealership in the San Diego area.

    I was told the same things (we can't do anything, it's testing fine, come back when you are having a problem, etc.).

    I was also told there was an unreasonable drain on the battery that would take hours upon hours to diagnose (boy, didn't he feel stupid when I said, "Umm, my cell phone is charging inside the cabin right now...").

    Some of the conversation that really annoyed me was being told (same as you) that we shouldn't leave the key in the on position for even a few moments...as if the battery would die THAT fast...I'm like, "Umm, doesn't that mean that there IS a problem??"

    And what on earth is the logic of sending us ON OUR WAY WITH A DEFECTIVE BATTERY? What--you think I want to call and get a jump again? Yeah, being stranded is really cool...

    Apparently, they need this "dead battery" code in order to replace the battery under warranty if it's testing fine. Lest, their hands are tied. While I can somewhat understand the logic of not mindlessly changing batteries at a customers whim, there must be SOME logic. I mean, why on earth would someone with a car that is ~4 months old take time out of his day to say the battery is having issues? What--I'm trying to get a free 4 months out of them for a new battery?

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    Barak is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Do you know what amperage that 90 minutes of reserve capacity is at?
    Also how many amps your vehicle draws KOEO?
    Really irrelevant but in any case as far as I know the reserve capacity rating is done at a standard draw.

    According to the dealership the amp draw with the KOEO with the lights on and radio on is 16-17 amps, very low by any standard, probably due to the HID headlights.

    I appreciate the support LV V and Luna.

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    moldowan is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    same issue here!
    Luckily cavender caddy in SA replaced my battery with no complaints and all has been fine since. Your service center SUCKS!!!!
    -moldy

  8. #7
    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    go the the faq, dealer rankings, and rate them....warn others. you can leave comments, too

  9. #8
    Barak is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Thanks for the tip Urb.

    What did you end up doing about the dead battery problem, Luna?

  10. #9
    Luna. is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barak
    Thanks for the tip Urb.

    What did you end up doing about the dead battery problem, Luna?
    After I told the guy how lame it was to send me on my way when it was probably going to happen to me again, he gave me his own business card, with his personal cell number on it, and told me to call him if it happened while I was in San Diego.

    It did. I called him. He came out, got the code off my dead battery, said that was what he needed, installed a new battery on the spot..voila.

    He also informed me that ON ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE, they have much more leeway than they do at the dealership. In other words, I probably could have had a new one installed if I called him for roadside assistance than when I had it at the dealer.

    In any case, I find the process really stupid. For instance, if Cadillac roadside assistance helped you, why couldn't the dealer rely on that as proof that the battery was defective??

  11. #10
    ctsvett's Avatar
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    John,
    Trying to help here....

    They sound like they suck...

    Here is the procedure they need to follow:
    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/d...06-03-010a.pdf

    They do need a code (with some exceptions)
    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/d...tery-claim.pdf

    I say, drive the car home, wait till teh battery dies, call cadillac roadside assistance, make them jump you/ tow you... keep doing this... It will get very expensive for cadillac and they will replace you battery.. It also says that they dont NEED a test if you use roadside assist... so that should help..

    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/data/pi/PIC3589.pdf

    Here are some other things..

    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/d...06-03-015a.pdf
    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/d...06-03-006b.pdf

    This is a known issue and I cant find the TSB about the bad batch of batteries.. I will keep looking...

    Good luck Barak and let me know if I can help.. I am meeting with the regional rep on friday morning at penseke for my own issues (Ishminder and I went in together today hoping power= numbers...)

    Reed

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    Katech's Avatar
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barak
    Really irrelevant but in any case as far as I know the reserve capacity rating is done at a standard draw.

    According to the dealership the amp draw with the KOEO with the lights on and radio on is 16-17 amps, very low by any standard, probably due to the HID headlights.

    I appreciate the support LV V and Luna.

    How is that irrelevant? That is why I asked what the draw was on a CTS-V. If the 90 minute reserve capacity is rated at a standard draw of say, 10 amps, then it would be save to say that IF the CTS-V had a higher KOEO draw than most cars and was 20 amps then the reserve capacity would be 45 minutes. Granted that is nowhere near the 5 minutes that he mentioned, but I'm just using these numbers as examples and that is why I asked the question.

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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Barak,
    I can leave my car in KOEO for more than 5 mintues.. There must me a problem with your car.... Tell the moron at the dealer that... Surprisingly that is not good enough for GM. I bet it would be for lexus...

    I am getting REALLY PISSED OFF about GM service.... I hear horror stories all day from you guys and I am having it happen to me too....

    EVERYONE IS SOCAL: would everyone (luna excluded) be willing to go to a dealership in mass to have our cars service. Maybe we can get a dealership to give a crap if we dangle a bunch of business in front of them...
    The following are NOT options: Mark Christopher, Coast, Peneske, Tustin

    Any ideas?

    I wish lindsay was close to me.

    Reed

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    Barak is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Thanks for all the support guys.

    He also informed me that ON ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE, they have much more leeway than they do at the dealership.
    On Sunday, Onstar told me that they would try to send a tech to replace the battery, but instead sent a guy from a towing company who just gave me a jump.

    I say, drive the car home, wait till teh battery dies, call cadillac roadside assistance, make them jump you/ tow you... keep doing this... It will get very expensive for cadillac and they will replace you battery.. It also says that they dont NEED a test if you use roadside assist... so that should help..
    I think I will try this next. Immediately when I get the car home I will leave the key on for five minutes, and then have Onstar send a tech with a battery to replace it. Thanks for the advice.

    I heard back from Kyle, the GM customer service rep, who informed me that he had left several messages with Mark Christopher and has had absolutely no response. He asked me if I could leave my car at the dealership until this thing was sorted out. So my car is still there and this story and thread will undoubtedly continue. I find myself now wondering if I will ever againconsider buying another GM vehicle after this BS.

  15. #14
    Luna. is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsvett
    EVERYONE IS SOCAL: would everyone (luna excluded) be willing to go to a dealership in mass to have our cars service. Maybe we can get a dealership to give a crap if we dangle a bunch of business in front of them...
    The following are NOT options: Mark Christopher, Coast, Peneske, Tustin

    Any ideas?
    My understanding is that the Caddy dealership in Sherman Oaks (Casa de Cadillac is it? They may have moved to Van Nuys though--not sure) is a great one to deal with. The owner and one of the techs (??) own a CTS-V is my understanding...

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    showey is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Mark Christopher Cadillac Blows!!!!!

    In response.
    We have tested Barak's battery no less than seven times over two days all with the same result. Good Battery. We used two different machines, both with the same results. My Tech left the lights / radio and key on for 20 minutes and retested, again, good battery. Today at Baraks request, I personally left the key on, radio and headlights on for 6 minutes, then, load tested the battery at 170 amps, twice and again on a separate tester, all with the same results. "Good battery" after all of the punishment on the battery the engine cranked up perfectly. I inspected for suspect date codes as described in one the TSB's and I had found that this is in fact a replacement battery (confirmed in GMVISS) I checked all TSB's that may apply and none of them apply to this vehicle.
    Unfortunately, at times, we in the dealerships must answer to GM and without a failure, we will not "throw" parts at a car. Neither on GM’s dime nor on our customers. I would invite anyone who reads this who expects honest, professional and personal service to try Mark Christopher for them selves.
    I have little doubt that Barak has some sort of (intermittent) failure and with that, I would much rather locate and repair the root cause of that failure as opposed to throwing band aids and guesses at the car. I gave Barak the customer service number personally as it may be possible to get GM to do something beyond the dealer’s ability to replace a known GOOD part.
    As for the personal attacks, no Barak, I am not a liar (as requested by you) and I will not cheat you, GM or any of my other customers... and that is how I sleep at night. For you to ask me to test a known bad battery and "sell" that to GM is Totally unacceptable and dishonest. How would you feel if that’s how I treated you when you were out of warranty?
    Please remember, selling service (Warranty or otherwise) is how we get paid and support our families. Why would I want a no charge repair order?
    There are weak, dishonest people out there in all walks of life. I, do my best, not to be one of them.
    Good luck.

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