2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Goodyear GS D3s - Not Impressed, yet in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Well I finally found someone that could swap ot my run flats without scratching the rims. I went with the ...
Well I finally found someone that could swap ot my run flats without scratching the rims. I went with the GS-D3s. So far, after 1 day and 40 miles in dry conditions, they do not handle hard corners as well - the rear end gets happy and kicks out much easier than with the runcraps. What gives? I am hoping that after a few hundred miles they will improve? Could the extra weight of a spare and a jack in the trunk have anything to do with the happy rear (I would think not; the extra weight should keep the rear planted more, not less, right?) I know others on here have been very happy with these tires . . . thanks
My thoughts are that the aggressive tread requires a molding process that creates a "cap" of hard rubber on the top of the tire. Mine were waaaaayyyyy better after the 2nd install (200+ miles on the first install before wheel widening).
Hang in there - they get a lot better - but they're never as sticky as the F1's (hence the shorter than acceptable, IMHO, tire life on the stockers)
I'd 'heard around' some people were using higher tire pressures to firm up the more supple sidewalls. Don't know what their extended reviews are regards this - thinking tire wear. It would seem to me if there is a difference in manufacturer's recommended on the GS-D3, and the chasis recommended spec'ing the F1's; this might require discovery to find what works. Again, I'm looking forward to seeing what people running the D3s have learned since their last posts. ( like wildwhl there ^)
I agree with Wild, and felt the same way when I first had the GSD3's put on. Turn in is not as responsive and won't be. That's the only trade off. The run flats have a much harder sidewall and gives more agressive turn in.
Give them a few hundred miles. The positives are Smokey burnouts and a quieter softer ride. Increase the cold pressure to 35, hot they will run up to about 39 -40. That will help your tun in, and ride quality is still great.
OK, I've restrained myself from commenting on the GS D3's. I'm new here, and a lot of people like them, but this forum is for sharing, and learning and well, at the risk of serious flaming, here goes.
I retired from racing 15 years ago. My last form of sanctioned motorized mayhem was Land Speed racing on motorcycles (El Mirage and Bonneville). Ever thrown a 1/4 mile long rooster tail on a turbo bike on wet salt at 193 mph while the bike is shaking it's head and the gyro effect on the wheels is so strong you pull a bicep muscle trying to control it with one hand while your other hand is turning the trim dial on the fuel metering as you keep an eye on the EGT gauge? It's the ultimate!
Anyway, I was in the motorcycle industry and well hooked up. I had full tire sponsorship from Michelin, and made a friend at the company that I still keep up with today. We used Formula1 tires on the bike because they could handle the 200 mph speeds and were sticky. I have had many discussions with my tire friend, including about car tires.
I used to road race too, and back in the mid-90's I got some Yokohama tires that had the same kind of big "V" tread pattern as the D3's on my modded Mustang GT. My car was set up for handling big time, not drag. I noticed right away that the tires let go sooner than the stock non-supercar F1's I had before. While the tires communicated the impending loss of traction very well, and were quite controllable in 2 or 4 wheel drifts, they flat out didn't hold as well, even though the tread compound was soft and sticky. So I had a long chat with my tire friend.
He said that those "V" treads are about marketing, not performance. They look aggressive as hell and people like that, but those long, skinny tread blocks that make up the 'ribs' of the "V" are just that--skinny. They squirm, they wiggle as it were. If you look at any of the highest rated non-slick dry tires, DOT legal or not, they always have big, really big, square'ish tread blocks. Reason? These big blocks are solid structures, they don't wiggle and squirm.
All intermediate and wet tires on ultimate performance cars (Formula1, IRL, CHAMP, etc., any series that runs in the rain) have the same big block design. If there are any 'ribs' they extremely thick.
Look at what are arguably three of the highest performance dry tires available today,
All three of these tires have massive tread blocks.
What I was feeling was the tire tread’s instability, they had a lower limit because if it’s squirming, it isn’t working. This squirm is often felt as a less responsive turn in, less sharp transitions, and lower overall traction.
And the “V” isn’t about wet weather traction either. For that, you need longitudinal tread grooves, the deep, unbroken grooves of any all season tire. The “V” tread lacks those channels.
So I had to ask, why does Michelin make the Pilot Sport with a “V” shaped pattern? Well, it’s not a true “V” like the GS D3. There are two full circumference grooves in the center of the tire, the ribs of the “V” are much less sharply angled (therefore much shorter) and are much thicker than a D3, the ribs are also ‘broken’ by what are basically big sipes, and the big outside shoulder blocks extend further into the tread area than D3’s (where the blocks are on the sidewall, not much into the tread itself). He basically said that the Pilot Sport was a compromise, a nod to the marketing department with the sort of “V” shape, but retaining enough tread block stability to keep the engineers happy.
So that’s what I have learned and hereby relate. I completely understand why people need and want a tire that is A) Cheaper than the extremely expensive OEM tires, B) lasts longer than only part of a year even under normal driving, and C) has a softer sidewall for straight line traction and comfort. But I’d rather go for the PS2, AD07, or T/A KD’s. THIS IS ONLY AN OPINION AND MY PREFERANCE, this is not intended to dis anyone or slam anyone, or flame any particular tire. There is nothing wrong with the D3’s, but I’m not surprised that someone posted about the loss of grip at the higher end of the chart.
All good points. I've got 4k miles on the GS-D3s. 35psi cold works best. They needed a few hundred miles from new before sticking well. Although they give up a bit of dry traction to the stock F1s, they do offer significantly better resistance to hydroplanning and appear to wear 2x better.
In the past, I've seen tests in magazines which didn't seem to show a correlation between V-shaped grooves and grip. My personal preference is actually traditional, so I didn't buy the GS-D3s for looks. My first choice was Michelin PS2, however those are not in the exact size. Perhaps for the next set.
ntechnic, no slamming from me. I've posted similar comments in the past but have been widely ignored. I'd say ignorance is bliss but the GS-D3 is a good tire and rated highly by the TireRack and backed up by the people who own them.
But there are inherent qualities that just can't be fully overcome in certain tread designs. I also was a Yokohama junkie in the mid 90's. I still am a fan of Yokohama. But after owning AVS Intermediates and Nexus tires, I was highly disappointed in the AVS Sports which had the funky Y design. The Advan Neova AD07 looks really good. But like you said, large blocks and/or large continuous ribs are going to be the best handlers.