1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Hey guys, i'm highly considering a 1st gen. Currently i own a foxbody with 03 cobra engine that makes 485rwhp ...
  1. #1
    jcar302 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Hey guys, i'm highly considering a 1st gen.
    Currently i own a foxbody with 03 cobra engine that makes 485rwhp 500ft of torque (to wheels).
    Also a supercharged saleen explorer.

    Time has come to add something luxury performance that doesn't break the budget (i'm not into big car payments).

    I'm by no means considering the e63 amg, but i spend quite a bit of time with my buddies (he's a passenger not driver).
    It's easy to drive, handles pretty awesome, certainly sprints to 60 quickly.
    What it lacks is a fun factor, with all computer aids off, you still can't do burnouts, donuts, get sideways.
    Paddle shifters are a joke, pretty much non usable and pointless.

    How does a 1st gen stack up in the straight line and handling category?
    Are the driving aids intrusive?
    What's it going to take to run the quarter equal or better on standard tires?

    I pretty much modify everything, but was hoping not to have to add a power adder or go too deep into the engine. I also want to avoid another car that needs drag radials, as for i would like to use the V as a regular sedan that can be used in the winter and summer without worrying about conditions (other than snow).

    Any opinions are appreciated.
    I realize stock vs stock the v should lose, especially since the amg drives itself, just want an idea of how badly.

    thanks,
    Joe

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    carlson_mn is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Not sure why you'd need drag radials on a V with the other car that you own being much faster and better at the track. That E63 is much more comparable to the V2. Like you said, without a substantial power adder I would imagine it is about .5s quicker through a 1/4 mile race. The V is a lot of fun to drive, it's just a bad ass car. The fact Cadillac didn't even offer an automatic model makes me like it even more. It's somewhat crude of a car to be honest but it is a driver's car first and foremost.

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    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    As carlson stated, above, a V1 is not quite comparable to an E63, BUT with just a few mods, it can be very nearly comparable.

    In a straight line (repeated burnouts), you'd need aftermarket axles and more power via H/C, nitrous, or FI. My impressions is that handling needs a little less ... you can lower the car a bit, install beefed-up anti-sway bars, and go to some of those rebuildable shocks. Doing all the work yourself, you should be well under about $10k and have a very satisfying car.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Not really two cars that I would choose for a comparison. The V is a great platform out of the box. You can pick them up in the upper teens now. Powerplant has tons of potential. And car handles great. Really can't ho wrong with one. Great balance of performance and luxury.

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    jcar302 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Thanks for the opinions guys.

    I know for comparison it's not a fair playing field, but it's what i have to work with because the only luxury sports sedan i've spent alot of time with.

    I just don't want to buy a 20k car and drop another 20 into it, not really sensible, if that's the case i should hold off for a second gen.

    I do this for a hobby and have a friend with a known dyno race shop where i can do all my own work and if i need a hand, they lend it.

    The reason i originally mentioned drag radials is probably because i've had the foxbody for 15+ years now, without drag radials with the power output (even with them too) the car can be a menace.
    The V would probably never goto the strip, but i'd like it to be a proven mid/high 12 combo on all season tires with no effect on driveability or ride quality. I don't need yet another car that i have to avoid using.
    As i've read many posts here, i see many guys mention drag radials, i just wanted it to be clear i want a car that gets motivated without them.

    I just want something nice, stylish, powerful good handling that i can take out to dinner and around town with normal adults without worry.
    Always wanted a zo6, but i plan on having kids in the next couple years so no vette for me.
    I don't need to woo people with it's rarity, if you don't know what it is, it's probably not worth talking about with them anyway.

  7. #6
    OneFast V is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    To get all seasons and mid 12s you will need over 400rwhp closer to 430. Probably longtube headers and a cam at a minimum

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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    400 rwhp is really easy to make with these cars, most head/cam/intake exhaust set ups make between 430-475 wheel hp, depending on how aggresive you go.

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    GDPossehl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Quote Originally Posted by jcar302 View Post
    I just don't want to buy a 20k car and drop another 20 into it, not really sensible, if that's the case i should hold off for a second gen.
    Bingo.

    V1's are a lot of fun, but they do fall short in a couple categories.
    1. The nav/Bose combo is pretty worthless and incompatible with today's tech, and replacing it is difficult to pull off aesthetically without significant customization. A sub upgrade and iPod integration (~$200) are the easier upgrades that suffice.
    2. In stock form, these things are not drag racers--but they'll run consistently in the mid 13's babied off the line.
    3. The interior quality and amount of plastic is sub-par.
    4. All the factory mounts are garbage, but we're fortunate to have solid aftermarket options.

    The V2's have solved all of these problems.

    If you're used to anything near an E63, you may be disappointed with the V1. If you're willing to look past its faults for the awesome potential in its engine and trans, it's an awesome bang for the buck.

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    jcar302 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Thanks guys,
    I can live with some shortcomings considering these are only 15-20k cars.

    I was hoping to not pull the heads off or alter the cam in any way that causes a low end loss or difficulty in traffic (if that indeed happens at all).

    Exhaust, intake, tune and suspension bolt ons are fine with me, although i don't want it to be too loud, already have 2 of those.

    I could probably live with 400rwhp.

    Is there a one stop website for aftermarket parts for these cars?
    I know for the mustang i use maximummotorsports.com for suspension, which basically has all the good stuff.
    Just so i can get an idea of what things are going to cost me.

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    GDPossehl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    A mild cam shouldn't kill your low-end. I've heard good results from the off the shelf cams like Vengeance Racing's VRX3 cam and Texas Speed has some good options as well.

    If you want to stay quiet, go straight for headers and leave the stock cat-back on it. The cats are the biggest restriction in the stock setup.
    Header options: Pacesetter 1 3/4" mild steel (amazon), OBX 1 7/8" stainless (ebay), Kooks 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" stainless (auth'd vendors).
    Pacesetters don't have a bolt-on high flow catted option, OBX and Kooks do.

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    catch2otwo is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    The real question is why arent you considering an audi or a bimmer? I love my V but seeing as how your looking for more luxury then performance, the caddy would be at the bottom of the pile. If your willing to sacrafice power for more luxury then s4's and m3's become more attractive.

    Quiet interiors, better fit and finish, fun motor, manual trans, rwd/awd platforms. The only thing these suck with compared to the V is long term maintenance costs and cost of aftermarket parts. But seeing as you own a custom foxbody, Im assuming your handy with a wrench.

    Not turning your off the V by any means but if I were to put luxury ahead of my performance needs I would be considering others ahead of the V. Ive had the s4 and also the v8 model audis, and friends have had the 6cyl m3s and v8 m5s, all of which are very fun to drive and now a days pretty affordable.

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    Better choice then the s4 > Rs4 with 6 speed swap

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    jcar302 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Quote Originally Posted by catch2otwo View Post
    The real question is why arent you considering an audi or a bimmer? I love my V but seeing as how your looking for more luxury then performance, the caddy would be at the bottom of the pile. If your willing to sacrafice power for more luxury then s4's and m3's become more attractive.

    Quiet interiors, better fit and finish, fun motor, manual trans, rwd/awd platforms. The only thing these suck with compared to the V is long term maintenance costs and cost of aftermarket parts. But seeing as you own a custom foxbody, Im assuming your handy with a wrench.

    Not turning your off the V by any means but if I were to put luxury ahead of my performance needs I would be considering others ahead of the V. Ive had the s4 and also the v8 model audis, and friends have had the 6cyl m3s and v8 m5s, all of which are very fun to drive and now a days pretty affordable.
    Catch, i apologize if i mislead you, but i'm not in it for all out luxury.
    I'd like a healthy mix of luxury and performance.

    I'm no bmw or audi guy, more american muscle (v8's only).
    I'm well aware in the era the 1st gen v was made, foreign interiors were superior, i can live with that.

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    carlson_mn is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    as a DD the only gripes I have are the steering wheel tilt detents totally bypass the spot I would want the wheel, and there is no good storage area in the car for stuff like glasses, pens, etc - other than the area under the arm rest. I may consider swapping in a non-V center console someday if I can find one for cheap.

  16. #15
    jcar302 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1st gen cts v vs. 09 e63 amg

    Keep in mind guys, this will NOT be a daily driver.

    I'm an electrical contractor so for work, i'm always in my work van.
    The mrs. does not know how to drive a stick, and it will probably stay that way, so she won't be driving it.

    Likely trips to the gym, dinners out, friends and family houses, that's about it.

    I know it's not the e63amg, just would like the performance to be close.
    Odds are i'll put down just under 10k, so while it won't be an amg, my wallet will only be hurt a couple hundred a month, instead of $700.

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