Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved) in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Hello all! Some of you may remember me posting before about vibrations in my 2004 CTS-V. and I am here ...
  1. #1
    joelrobison is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    Hello all!

    Some of you may remember me posting before about vibrations in my 2004 CTS-V. and I am here to tell you that it has all worked out!

    The problem was the dual-mass flywheel, I removed it and replaced it with a 28LB monster clutch (stage 2) and flywheel setup (was supposed to be the 18lb but there were issues on the ordering side). After replacing the flywheel, NO MORE VIBRATION and NO MORE CLICKING/SLAPPING NOISE AT WARM IDLE.

    After removing the old flywheel I measured the deflection from the engine side to the "sponge" side of the flywheel at about 1/4 inch!! and it also slapped pretty freely in the rotating direction as well.

    This has been a long battle with a great ending, thanks to the people at gforce1320 and Monster for such great products!

    I also want to list various dealer responses to this problem, I spent nearly as much on diagnostics as the new clutch and flywheel before I did this myself:

    Chevy of Issaquah:
    * Piston slap
    * "It has a bit of a cam in it"
    * "Thats normal for that car"

    Good Chev:
    * Engine Mounts are bad (this is true actually, they are the next project but obviously not the problem)
    I would like to note that someone here did do the best they could to help me out and I would go back here to get service for sure.

    Another fellow had mentioned that the balancer had gone bad, and this was also a good suggestion; but then I bought one and learned that there is no index on the crank for the balancer on this car so it was internally balanced, then came the ah-ha moment when I read that there was a dual-mass flywheel on the car from the factory and I remembered all the issues that came with that from the Diesel world.

    I hope that this information is helpful to anyone with similar problems: If you feel a vibration through the gas pedal and it gets worse at freeway speeds in 6th gear when the engine luggs... dont believe anyone who tells you it is normal! that can destroy your bottom end over time.


    -Joel

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  3. #2
    UnsafeAtAnySpd's Avatar
    UnsafeAtAnySpd is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    I had the same vibration after replacing my engine mounts with my stock flywheel/clutch. That went away with the new LS9 setup as well as numerous other noises (it sounded like absolute shit in neutral at idle, etc).

  4. #3
    Fasciaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    Sounds like a pretty typical story for these cars as mine is an 04 also and heard all the same specualtive diagnosis's.
    I also was about to replace the damper pully, when I finally faced the reality that it was probably a lot more work to replace the clutch but my gut was telling me that was the culprit. I also needed motor mounts which sort masks the problem and gave me hope that replacing them would solve the vibration issue. I did replace the MM and to my surprise the vibration got worse. Basically because the solid Urethane mounts were stiffer and holding the engine in place better than the worn out stock ones. So after pleanty of reading on this forum I decided to go with the LS7 clutch through Lindsay Cad. Fixed all the vibration issues and the car is a joy to drive now. However I am afraid that I may have delt with the vibration longer than I should have as now I seem to have a slight oil leak. I havent climbed under to see where its coming from but I pray its not the rear main. With my luck it probably is. So yea for those who experience a vibration (and mine got worse and better throughout the RPM range) get it fixed asap.

  5. #4
    DougNuts is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    Nice to know!

  6. #5
    Godsmistake103 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    I just got the LS7 clutch with ram 18lb flywheel it definitely reducing the vibrations but i still get em at that 2200 rpms and consistently when i rev the motor at idle. I have a feeling my engine or transmission mount is shot. At first i thought it was the Driveshaft but since its a idle i crossed that off the list.

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    Hmmmm... I too have vibes at 2200 and have posted here about them ever since I got my V last year. Nobody mentioned that it might of been the flywheel. Perhaps it's because I can reproduce the vibes while in neutral and revving. Does the fly spin when the clutch is DISengaged? If so, I think this is my answer as well. Tried 2 sets of CS motor mounts and they seemed to dull the vibes for a while, but they never went away. They seemed to have gotten stronger too.
    Yet another reason for the LS7 clutch swap. I just wish money wasnt an issue and I could go ahead with it on a whim.

  8. #7
    CadzillaTN's Avatar
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    I feel a nasty vibration in neutral from 1000-2500rpm even when driving..it feels very orbital, like the driveshaft. I can't recall if I feel it in neutral with the clutch pushed in or not, seems that would eliminate the driveshaft if so.. Firestone says my harmonic balancer is about to fall apart, so that could be the issue.

    Regarding clutches, I do want an aftermarket replacement, but I already have a brand new stock clutch. I was going to have the dealer put it in during upcoming trans work, just in case the vibes were due to the current clutch wearing out, but I tried to clean some minor rust off of it and it ended up rusting the damn thing 4 times worse! I guess it's ruined now...

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    Godsmistake103 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    I had my harmonic balance at the dealer replaced, they said it was coming apart. That initially helped the vibes alot but then they came back. Then i got my clutch replaced with the LS7 kit and RAM 18lb flywheel. Went away then no their back again. The only thing i can think of is either DS, MM, or Trans Mount. It vibes at a stop with the clutch in or out in neutral. And to be honest i can only feel it in gear 3 and up in the pedals and steering wheel once i got some speed going. If its not one of those then im hoping something in the motor isnt unbalance or screwed up. Guess its just time to do process of elimination and see whats left if the vibes dont go away.

  10. #9
    Stg1buick is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    I have been dealing with a vibration/rattle since the Throw out bearing and Diff were replaced in February under warranty. The vibration/rattle were not there before. The dealer now says they can't fix it and Cadillac sent me to another dealer under 'Good Will' since the warranty expired while at the first dealer. They are telling me it is the shifter that was modified before I bought the car. I hear the rattle in 6th gear only when I let out of the throttle going into a curve and the vibration again in 6th gear at highway speeds while maintaining a cruise speed. I don't notice either under acceleration. When I hear the rattle, it sounds like it comes from just below the dash in the bell housing area. I'm wondering if the flywheel is the problem or if they misaligned something when replacing the TOB. The mechanic told me he pulled the trans and left the bell housing on the engine. I thought it was the drive shaft except it doesn't do it all the time or another gear. Any thoughts?

    Thanks, David

  11. #10
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    If it's the OEM dual mass that's causing this vibration, would it matter whether the clutch pedal was in or out? My particular instance makes no difference. It vibrates at 2200 rpm whether it's in motion or parked and whether the clutch is engaged or not. OP - was yours happening regardless of clutch engagement too?

  12. #11
    CadzillaTN's Avatar
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    Same here Wes.. I got my balancer replaced,vib is still there in neutral with clutch in or not. I can say it gets a 'little' better if I push in the clutch...so it's either the stock turd or the driveshaft as I also feel it while just cruising between 1000 and 1500 rpm...I'm going to press the driveshaft issue until it gets replaced, then if still there I'll do the clutch.

    Why do so many people have vibration problems after clutch installs??...

  13. #12
    WesH8398's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadzillaTN View Post
    Why do so many people have vibration problems after clutch installs??...
    I haven't heard very many who have issues AFTER installing a new clutch... Not the LS7 clutches, anyway.

    How does one check his harmonic balancer to see if that's the culprit? Also, is there any way to verify that it's the OEM dual mass causing vibes?

  14. #13
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stg1buick View Post
    I have been dealing with a vibration/rattle since the Throw out bearing and Diff were replaced in February under warranty. The vibration/rattle were not there before. The dealer now says they can't fix it and Cadillac sent me to another dealer under 'Good Will' since the warranty expired while at the first dealer. They are telling me it is the shifter that was modified before I bought the car. I hear the rattle in 6th gear only when I let out of the throttle going into a curve and the vibration again in 6th gear at highway speeds while maintaining a cruise speed. I don't notice either under acceleration. When I hear the rattle, it sounds like it comes from just below the dash in the bell housing area. I'm wondering if the flywheel is the problem or if they misaligned something when replacing the TOB. The mechanic told me he pulled the trans and left the bell housing on the engine. I thought it was the drive shaft except it doesn't do it all the time or another gear. Any thoughts?

    Thanks, David
    Sixth gear is a known weakness in the Tremec transmission. Ironically, the problem is most likely to occur in vehicles operated conservatively -specifically those drivers that shift into sixth gear early to save fuel etc. actually amplify the problem. The conventional test is to duplicate the speed in fifth gear at which the vibration occurs in sixth gear - if the vibration goes away the problem presumably is sixth gear itself.

  15. #14
    Fasciaguy's Avatar
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by WesH8398 View Post
    If it's the OEM dual mass that's causing this vibration, would it matter whether the clutch pedal was in or out? My particular instance makes no difference. It vibrates at 2200 rpm whether it's in motion or parked and whether the clutch is engaged or not. OP - was yours happening regardless of clutch engagement too?
    No the flywheel spins with the crank and continue to give you vibrations regardless if the clutch is engaged or not. If it when away by engaging the clutch I would say its in your tranmission but not the driveshaft unless the vehicle is moving. So if its RPM related its engine or MM including flywheel, HB. if its speed related its driveshaft/transmission related.

  16. #15
    Stg1buick is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Dual-mass flywheel gone bad, caused vibration at 2200 (solved)

    Thanks Darkman. Looking at the service bulletins, that is the second thing after driveshaft that it says to look at. I had no idea that shifting into 6th early would be a culprit. Our '99 Trans Am is geared different but hasn't caused any problems.

    David

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