Keep the '02 M5 Vs Buy The V Analysis

[StealthV]

Dgtal's rear tires in particular were severely tread depth challenged.

[Devil_concours]

Originally Posted by StealthV

Dgtal's rear tires in particular were severely tread depth challenged.

our dedicated v test drivers.

[Harley Guy]

I have an '05 V with about 3,500 miles on it. I have absolutely no rear end whine. Almost from day one I have had a very slight vibration in a very narrow band from about 77 to 80 mph. No vibration below that and none noticed up to 120 (on an interstate through a sweeping curve with a kid on a sport bike right next to me. I was not sure he new what he was doing and I got out of it. My wife slept through the whole thing! )

Love the car! I am sure I would also love the M5 also.

[w07364]

I have 10K miles and no whine.

[JEM]

Originally Posted by Johnny_D

M5 Advantages
Classic design, End of era
High quality components
No vibration or road noise

Disadvantages
Rough ride
Dealer Service sucks

CTS V Advantages
Cutting edginess design, modern
Smoother ride
Better Nav, HVAC & Audio
Less intrusive Stabilitrack with 2 levels including off
Roomier
Plays DVDs
Dealer Service

Disadvantages
Lower quality fit and finish
Rear-end noise & vibration at high speed

I won't get into the economics, but...

How can you say the CTS-V has a smoother ride? That's certainly not been my experience. My M5 is a fair bit smoother than both the Vs I've driven (one of which had the BMR kit.) Not a huge difference, but enough to be noticeable. Not that the Cadillac is objectionable, either.

The Stabilitrak, brakes, and entertainment/nav electronics of the Cadillac are far superior, agreed. The Cadillac may have more total interior volume, but I find the E39 BMW has at least as much usable space.

The trunk of the BMW is not laid out very usefully, they've stuffed all the electronics down the sides so it's rather narrow - they try to convince you that it'll hold three golf bags but you'd have to be talking about little tiny travel bags or something.

Dealer service is highly dealer-dependent - how many different dealers have you tried with the Bimmer? I'd rate the one I've used at about an 8 out of 10 overall - they're decent, but certainly not perfect. It's possible, I expect, to find crappy Cadillac service as well given the 'right' dealer.

I prefer the BMW's shape, for various reasons, but the Cadillac definitely has presence.

[sefa01]

Originally Posted by Johnny_D

Two very good points. First, my wife has a BMW Z4 3.0 so we already have the fun car. I need a 4dr to carry passengers so I am restricted. My wish list is rear wheel, stick shift and 400hp. This pretty well makes it a short list. I am terribly conflicted on this. The worst choice would still be a kick-ass car. I really can't go wrong.

Then I don't see what the question is. I have a BMW M roadster, so this was my little fun car. I had a Jaguar VandenPlas as my 4-door (necessary) car for social/business. But it was boring. I bought the V in April and haven't regretted it once. A little rear wheel whine, but I haven't had the differential fluid changed yet. I never had the urge with any car (even the M roadster) to take it to a race day, but I'm done two already with Watkins Glen and Lime Rock coming up shortly.

To me, it's a no-brainer. There is no competition for the V. And take this from someone who has owned 20 new cars in the last 25 years--and before this, NONE had been GM

[6104696]

To say that your CTSV value in 2009 will be $14,500 sounds rather pessimistic, unless you are gonna put lots of miles on it or otherwise rag it.(2004 OR 2005). Similarly, to say that a 2002 M5 will be worth almost twice as much seems a bit optimistik.

Love em or hate em, as soon at the new 5-series came out, the existing M5's started to look dated.

But hey....get whichever one lights your "gotta have it" light. If neither one does, then keep shopping. Economics schmeconomics. These are all extravagant toys and you should have the one that fits you right. If you want to do the economic analysis then you should include WRX, Evo, and the rest of the ricer ilk. Different cars, yes, but some would argue that they are better values than either of the V or the M5.

dhg

[Johnny_D]

Originally Posted by JEM

I won't get into the economics, but...

How can you say the CTS-V has a smoother ride? That's certainly not been my experience. My M5 is a fair bit smoother than both the Vs I've driven (one of which had the BMR kit.) Not a huge difference, but enough to be noticeable. Not that the Cadillac is objectionable, either. .

I thought it was noticeable that the V was smoother. Maybe it's due to the 36-8 psi I keep in those low profile tires. Seems like I feel every pebble I go over in the M5. I have taken 3 or 4 test drives in the V and drive my M5 daily. My wife agreed after driving both in succession.

Originally Posted by JEM

The Cadillac may have more total interior volume, but I find the E39 BMW has at least as much usable space. .

The numbers bear out the fact that in most dimensions the V is slightly larger.

Originally Posted by JEM

The trunk of the BMW is not laid out very usefully, they've stuffed all the electronics down the sides so it's rather narrow - .

V seems more spacious. The M5 has the big speaker magnets hanging down from the shelf that cut into the useable space as does the electonics that you pointed out.

Originally Posted by JEM

Dealer service is highly dealer-dependent - ... It's possible, I expect, to find crappy Cadillac service as well given the 'right' dealer. .

I have tried two Neither provide loaner cars nor give me a ride. Can't see how Cadillac could be worse. I got spoiled with Lexus having them deliver me a new Lexus to my office to drive every time my car went in for service. Talk about convenience! If Lexus made an equivalent "V" or "M" I'd be all over it. I just can't get into the their luxury vs drivers car. I appreciate a drivers car and they just don't have a credible offering in this category.

Originally Posted by JEM

I prefer the BMW's shape, for various reasons, but the Cadillac definitely has presence.

Night and day. M5 is classic looking and maybe timeless, some may say outdated. Cadillac is edgy and new, although may be short-lived. Hard to predict.

[Kels55]

13000 miles/5 months = no vibration/noise

[M5eatr]

I was in the market for a while and the dealer that had 2 M5's used in the showroom were practically begging me to take one of them. This leads me to believe that they will drop like a rock once the new M5 comes out sometime next year. The M5 is a good car but in NY I have been turned off by BMW service and frankly this "fit and finish" that everyone talks about is in the eye of the beholder. The digital readouts on the radio and on board computer are so dated and frankly look cookie cutter. Same goes with the instrument cluster which besides the little "m" is the same as the 3, and X series. I know because I have an X5. I also looked at the RS6. The only good thing I can say is that it has 4 wheel drive. A leftover is available (never titled 03 for 62 k from a local dealer). Al cars depreciate. The M will depreciate and whether you loose 20K on a Caddy, you will lose it on a Bimmer anyway. Get the car that you want because as someone said these are just "toys."

The dash on the V is sharp and the nav/computer is in my opinion one of the best I have seen. The "fit and finish" is great. I just think that the marketing and preception of "German" cars is instilled in our heads. Just my humble opinion.

[Johnny_D]

Originally Posted by M5eatr

I was in the market for a while and the dealer that had 2 M5's used in the showroom were practically begging me to take one of them. This leads me to believe that they will drop like a rock once the new M5 comes out sometime next year. .

Exactly my thoughts. If I can't sell mine I just turn it back in at the end of the lease, no liability. So far not much interest and more and more are coming on the market.

Originally Posted by M5eatr

The M5 is a good car but in NY I have been turned off by BMW service and frankly this "fit and finish" that everyone talks about is in the eye of the beholder. The digital readouts on the radio and on board computer are so dated and frankly look cookie cutter. Same goes with the instrument cluster which besides the little "m" is the same as the 3, and X series.

Well said Fit and finish is very very good but it does look dated and will only get worse with time

Originally Posted by M5eatr

Al cars depreciate. The M will depreciate and whether you loose 20K on a Caddy, you will lose it on a Bimmer anyway. Get the car that you want because as someone said these are just "toys.".

I just read an article that quoted several american cars depreciating 50% for a used 04! Rebates are nmaking new car purchases less expensive than used cars. Buy it and hold it or lease it to eliminate the unexpected drop in value.

The dash on the V is sharp and the nav/computer is in my opinion one of the best I have seen. The "fit and finish" is great. I just think that the marketing and preception of "German" cars is instilled in our heads. Just my humble opinion.[/quote]
Like Volvo which says that their cars are safer, great marketing.

[DgtalPimp]

Originally Posted by Rich H

Just curious, dgtalpimp, why were the tires replaced? Uneven wear, vibration due to out of round condition, ???

Stealth is correct in his remark about the depth challenges of the rear tires I had, they were damaged by abusive amounts of power applied generously via my right foot.



Dgtal

[Dreamin]

In my experience, the V has a rougher ride than the M5... V has pretty stiff shocks (non-FG2).

You have (2) VANOS controllers on your M...pretty much a little servo that makes the M5 a hoot....but cost $1600 each to replace. By way of comparison you can pretty much buy an entire CTS-V LS6 motor from a salvage yard for what those two VANOS controllers cost.

How about an LS6 block for $650 ?
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67670

[urbanski]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

In my experience, the V has a rougher ride than the M5... V has pretty stiff shocks (non-FG2).

yep
the FG2 are real kidney punishers, too....but no more so than my old porsche.

[Johnny_D]

Thanks so much for all of your input. Nice problem to have. Wil be making my final decision later this year before the lease runs out. My wife has already picked out th ecolor, Redline. For the interiro, I was thinking black.

How does that sound?