Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Okay, I've seen a ton of threads comparing short-shifters with post after post of opinions. This thread is intended to ...
  1. #1
    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Okay, I've seen a ton of threads comparing short-shifters with post after post of opinions. This thread is intended to put numbers to the opinions, and give everyone the quantitative (along with some qualitative) information they need to evaluate shifters.

    I measured a UUC short shifter, carefully, and found that the distance from the top of the shifter to the center of the pivot ball is 10 3/16", the distance from the center of the pivot ball to the center-line of the shift linkage hole is 2".

    Does anybody else have access to a stock shifter, Katech, etc.? If so, please carefully measure the two distances, post your results here, and then we can do a direct comparison of the ratios of the different shifters. I will create a table for the FAQ/stickies.



    {some background/fundamentals, feel free to chime in}
    A shifter design needs to accomplish two things:
    1) give the driver some mechanical advantage to make shifting easier than moving the shift linkage directly,
    2) provide some type of vibration isolation, so that structure-borne noise from the transmission doesn't radiate into the cabin.

    The shifter provides mechanical advantage by using a pivot ball, with a long arm above the pivot and a short arm below the pivot. The mechanical advantage of this setup is just the ratio of the two lengths, distance from the center of the pivot to the top of the shifter and the distance from the center of the pivot to the shift linkage pin. A short-shifter generally changes the ratio, so that there is less mechanical advantage. This means the throw is shortened but the effort required is increased.

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    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by dmilamj View Post
    ... the throw is shortened but the effort required is increased.
    In your effort to quantify shifters, any chance you're doing to do "effort," too? I noticed my B&M reducing the throw (I originally estimated ~30%), but proportionately increasing the effort (again, ~30%).

    Sorry, my stock shifter is buried somewhere in the garage ... can't help you there.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  4. #3
    PISNUOFF Guest

    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Here is some info - The pivot center to linkage center is 40 mm on the stock shifter and 52 mm on the UUC. 12/40 = 30% decrease in throw. The UUC is about 5 mm shorter above the pivot and weighs 2.5 lbs (twice as much as stock). The UUC is also a two piece design, but has significantly less vibration dampening between the two pieces and they are also attached by two screws that transmit vibration.

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    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    In your effort to quantify shifters, any chance you're doing to do "effort," too? I noticed my B&M reducing the throw (I originally estimated ~30%), but proportionately increasing the effort (again, ~30%).

    Sorry, my stock shifter is buried somewhere in the garage ... can't help you there.
    Definitely will be quantifying effort also, as you mentioned it should be proportional.

    Excavate that stock shifter!

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    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by PISNUOFF View Post
    Here is some info - The pivot center to linkage center is 40 mm on the stock shifter and 52 mm on the UUC. 12/40 = 30% decrease in throw. The UUC is about 5 mm shorter above the pivot and weighs 2.5 lbs (twice as much as stock). The UUC is also a two piece design, but has significantly less vibration dampening between the two pieces and they are also attached by two screws that transmit vibration.
    Interesting, I measured almost exactly 2" on the UUC I had, which would be what, 51mm, so that seems to coincide with yours.

    And the UUC is about 5mm shorter than stock above the pivot center?

    Keep in mind that the throw reduction is not just dependent on the pivot to linkage distance...let's see....it should be dependent on the change in the ratio of top to bottom distance, right? I'm coming up with about a 25% reduction with the UUC, but it's late, and I've been drinking scotch.

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=0&output=html

    Alright, anybody else have measurements for the katech, B&M, and the two modified stock options (welded pipe, replaced spacer.)?

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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Here are some throw lengths for ya(measured from 3rd - 4th):

    Stock - 5.5"

    UUC - 4"

    Katech - 30% reduction(throw not confirmed)

    B&M - 3.5"

    Modded Stock(welded) - 3.5"

    Modded Stock(spacer) - 3"(don't know where or how was measured)


    I would also like to say...

    It is a shifter. Your time would definitely be better spent concentrating on other parts of the car. Not trying to knock what you are doing but... seriously?


    You've got a good selection already:

    UUC - Shorter throw than stock - Least noise of aftermarket STS's - Most Expensive

    Katech - Very close to being the same as B&M - Less expensive than UUC

    B&M(discontinued) - Shorter throw than UUC - Slightly more noise - Less expensive than Katech

    Modified Stock(welded)
    - Same throw as B&M - Same as stock just shorter throw - Least expensive

    Modified Stock(Spacer) - Shortest throw - Same as stock just shorter throw - Slightly more expensive than stock(welded)

  8. #7
    PISNUOFF Guest
    I don't have either in front of me now, but the 5mm further adds to the reduction. I'm pretty sure their website says at least 30% reduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmilamj View Post
    Interesting, I measured almost exactly 2" on the UUC I had, which would be what, 51mm, so that seems to coincide with yours.

    And the UUC is about 5mm shorter than stock above the pivot center?

    Keep in mind that the throw reduction is not just dependent on the pivot to linkage distance...let's see....it should be dependent on the change in the ratio of top to bottom distance, right? I'm coming up with about a 25% reduction with the UUC, but it's late, and I've been drinking scotch.

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=0&output=html

    Alright, anybody else have measurements for the katech, B&M, and the two modified stock options (welded pipe, replaced spacer.)?

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    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003RC51 View Post
    Here are some throw lengths for ya(measured from 3rd - 4th)...
    ...
    It is a shifter. Your time would definitely be better spent concentrating on other parts of the car. Not trying to knock what you are doing but... seriously?
    ...
    Thanks for the measurements, that's a good part of what I was looking for, and I've added that to the comparison chart. I'm still interested in how the shorter throw is achieved, i.e. shorter top or longer bottom, or both.

    As far as the "It is a shifter. Your time would be better spent..." not sure exactly what you mean. I haven't seen a proper comparison of the shifters, that's all I'm trying to put together. Maybe you've seen a thread that I haven't found...but, right now people ask "what shifter should I get?" and all they get is a bunch of opinions, no data.

    Also personally, when I think about the things on the stock V that suck, the shifter is at the top, right next to CAGS. And while driving, I shift alot. Pretty much all the time. Shifter feel is essential, and a 1" change in throw has a significant effect on shifter feel.

    So as far as other parts of the car that should be concentrated on...knock yourself out, I want to help people evaluate the available shifter options.

  10. #9
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by dmilamj View Post
    Okay, I've seen a ton of threads comparing short-shifters with post after post of opinions. This thread is intended to put numbers to the opinions, and give everyone the quantitative (along with some qualitative) information they need to evaluate shifters.

    I measured a UUC short shifter, carefully, and found that the distance from the top of the shifter to the center of the pivot ball is 10 3/16", the distance from the center of the pivot ball to the center-line of the shift linkage hole is 2".

    Does anybody else have access to a stock shifter, Katech, etc.? If so, please carefully measure the two distances, post your results here, and then we can do a direct comparison of the ratios of the different shifters. I will create a table for the FAQ/stickies.



    {some background/fundamentals, feel free to chime in}
    A shifter design needs to accomplish two things:
    1) give the driver some mechanical advantage to make shifting easier than moving the shift linkage directly,
    2) provide some type of vibration isolation, so that structure-borne noise from the transmission doesn't radiate into the cabin.

    The shifter provides mechanical advantage by using a pivot ball, with a long arm above the pivot and a short arm below the pivot. The mechanical advantage of this setup is just the ratio of the two lengths, distance from the center of the pivot to the top of the shifter and the distance from the center of the pivot to the shift linkage pin. A short-shifter generally changes the ratio, so that there is less mechanical advantage. This means the throw is shortened but the effort required is increased.
    B&M is 9 1/4" and 2 3/8" (60.3mm) approximately but pretty damn close.

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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    what is the standard method of measuring throw length?..

    I cut 3/4 inch off my b&m shaft and put on the holden knob, which also had less material inside the top so it is overall shorter in height. I would think my throw is shortest other than the stock chop you mention.. Id like to try others at a meet one day just for a comparison, especially stock..

    is the modified stocker still vague as hell despite being shorter?

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    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by yagenrok636 View Post
    B&M is 9 1/4" and 2 3/8" (60.3mm) approximately but pretty damn close.
    Thanks. Table updated.

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    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by CadzillaTN View Post
    what is the standard method of measuring throw length?..

    is the modified stocker still vague as hell despite being shorter?
    I don't think there is a standard for measuring throw length, other than most people using the 3-4 shift length, that's why I was interested in the geometric evaluation.

    I would guess it would be best to measure from the top of the exposed shaft, so that shift knob variations are not included, but most people probably measure the center to center distance with a knob.

    My theory is that the soft stock shift linkage bushing and the two "shift tray" bushings contribute to the vague feel. If those are retained with the modified stocker, I would think it would still feel vague, but probably a little less vague.

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    dmilamj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by yagenrok636 View Post
    B&M is 9 1/4" and 2 3/8" (60.3mm) approximately but pretty damn close.
    By the way, what's the weight of the B&M?

  15. #14
    bjv
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    Re: Yet Another Shifter Comparison Thread - This Time with Measurements

    "It is a shifter..." ?????

    I've had my V for 4 months or so now. Even though I've driven stick shift cars for about 25 years, it takes a little while to get used to the shifter and clutch of a new vehicle. I finally did the !CAGS and now I don't have any problem with my shifter. I might like shorter throws but I would mostly like a better defined gate. I can't tell that a shorter throw shifter will provide this but I'm still interested and still looking.

    If the B&M shifter was more readily available I would probably have one. I wouldn't pay the additional cost of some of the other aftermarket shifters, and now the B&M is hard to find. I'm not even sure if I care if I get one or not, but there are a couple of guys now promising mods of the stock shifters, and I might play along and get one of those if those guys actually come through.

    As for the ranking of shifter among other mods- !CAGS is a big one and definitely at the top of the list. My car came with relatively new RS-A runflats and getting a full spare and proper tires on the car seems to be an important mod too. IMO after this additional mods, including the shifter, are less important.

  16. #15
    PISNUOFF Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CadzillaTN View Post
    what is the standard method of measuring throw length?..

    I cut 3/4 inch off my b&m shaft and put on the holden knob, which also had less material inside the top so it is overall shorter in height. I would think my throw is shortest other than the stock chop you mention.. Id like to try others at a meet one day just for a comparison, especially stock..

    is the modified stocker still vague as hell despite being shorter?
    New bushings get rid of the vague feeling.

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