| 2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discuss everything about the first generation Cadillac CTS-V that does NOT fall into either the Performance or Appearance Modification category. | Cadillac Forums: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it? 
08-22-09, 06:54 PM
|  | Mods on hold till diff gets fixed. Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V  | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Lyon, MI Age: 60 | | | Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
Already asked one guy here. He basically said it's like polishing a turd.
Don't know how much work it would be, but thinking about finding a used one and launching into it myself. What do you think? Is it worth doing?
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'05 CTS-V, Stealth Gray, Sunroof, 3M Clear Bra, B&M Shifter w/UUC Bushings, Specter Werkes Bushings, V Headrests, Wheel To Wheel Powertrain Tune, Corsa, Kooks w/Hi-Flo Cats, Ultimate Grid Pedals, Hotchkis Anti-Sways, STS-V Fogs, Ground Control 650R/600F, WW Clear Sidemarkers, Full-Size Spare, Magnuson SC Polished, CTS Console, FG2, Aggressive Street Alignment, MOMO Shift Knob, DSS/Hendrix Engrg Axles, UUC Flywheel. Soon: UUC MMs. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang dyno). |
08-22-09, 07:47 PM
|  | <----- go ahead and stare Cadillac(s): Maggied '05 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Chester, PA Age: 26 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
What are you trying to accomplish with the rebuild?
__________________ 05 CTS-V / maggie 2.8 / b&m shifter & uuc bushings / gto shift knob / kooks lts 1 3/4 + cats / magnaflow / k&n cai / fg2 shocks / hotchkis sways / hawk hps / 265|40 bfg kd / ngk tr6
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08-22-09, 08:00 PM
| | BLING IS AMERICAN RICE Cadillac(s): '04 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Just North of Titletown... | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
I remember Tony mentioning this a couple years back with parts and such...
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08-22-09, 11:05 PM
| | Mods on hold till diff gets fixed. Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Lyon, MI Age: 60 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
I've got a noise. Sure seems to be the diff. It whines, for sure, but there's something more. Nutz thought it was the pinion bearing, but I checked, and it doesn't seem to be that (though I'm not at all certain it's not).
My diff has what seems to be a lot of play even though guyz here (including ewill3rd) seem to think it's normal. Being out of warranty with the HE axles, the weakest link in the drivetrain seems more and more to be the diff, and this noise is making me more conscious of it.
And, yeah, I remember Tony's thread. Guess I ought to do a search, huh?  |
08-22-09, 11:33 PM
|  | Cadillac Owners Connoisseur Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Spring, Texas | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rand49er  I've got a noise. Sure seems to be the diff. It whines, for sure, but there's something more. Nutz thought it was the pinion bearing, but I checked, and it doesn't seem to be that (though I'm not at all certain it's not).
My diff has what seems to be a lot of play even though guyz here (including ewill3rd) seem to think it's normal. Being out of warranty with the HE axles, the weakest link in the drivetrain seems more and more to be the diff, and this noise is making me more conscious of it.
And, yeah, I remember Tony's thread. Guess I ought to do a search, huh? | Just for clarification on "normal play'. What I meant, and what I think ewill3rd and DILLIGAF were saying is that if you put the car on a lift, grab the pinion yoke and move it back and forth, you can expect a "normal" differential to indicate a lot of play. When you do that however, you are not actually feeling the ring and pinion gear clearance which is quite small. What you are actually doing is engaging the ring and pinion gear (without detecting it) and moving to the next resistence point or set of moving parts, which in this case is the limited slip clutch packs.
Now the important part - finding out that moving the yolk back and forth indicates the usual amount of play does NOT by any means give your differential a clean bill of health. Indeed there are several internal clearances that could be outside of the service limits as well as bearings and other moving parts that could be worn out. These internal problems simply cannot be detected by moving the the pinion yoke back and forth. |
08-22-09, 11:41 PM
| | Cadillac Owners Connoisseur Cadillac(s): cts-v | | Join Date: Feb 2009 Age: 28 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
are you already out of warranty or think you warranty is shot because of the aftermarket axles? if its the later your warranty should be fine since they have to prove the axles caused the failure |
08-23-09, 07:12 AM
| | Mods on hold till diff gets fixed. Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Lyon, MI Age: 60 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkman ... Now the important part - finding out that moving the yolk back and forth indicates the usual amount of play does NOT by any means give your differential a clean bill of health. Indeed there are several internal clearances that could be outside of the service limits as well as bearings and other moving parts that could be worn out. ... | This is apparently the case, at least in my opinion of the noise I have. The play may be "normal," but there is an internal problem not revealed by checking that. Quote:
Originally Posted by liqidvenom are you already out of warranty or think you warranty is shot because of the aftermarket axles? if its the later your warranty should be fine since they have to prove the axles caused the failure | Warranty was up last January. I allowed that to occur (i.e. not extending it) knowing full well that the day might come where I'd be dealing with the differential on my own nickel.
The whole question is, what if I rebuild the diff good as new again, will I be back looking at this same problem in 100k, in 50k, or in 10k miles? 100k would be great, I could deal with 50k, but 10k is unacceptable.
Last edited by rand49er; 08-23-09 at 07:16 AM.
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08-23-09, 08:29 AM
| | Cadillac Owners Connoisseur Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Spring, Texas | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rand49er The whole question is, what if I rebuild the diff good as new again, will I be back looking at this same problem in 100k, in 50k, or in 10k miles? 100k would be great, I could deal with 50k, but 10k is unacceptable. | Is this differential the original? |
08-23-09, 09:46 AM
| | Mods on hold till diff gets fixed. Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Lyon, MI Age: 60 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
Had the original diff replaced, then had that one replaced in June '07. It currently has ~11.5k miles on it. Changed diff fluid when it had ~500 miles and again a couple weeks ago, both times Amsoil Severe Gear 75w-90 plus full bottle of their additive. This last time, the fluid looked very good with only a very minimal amount of ferrous material on the plug. Pinion seal leaks at present.
For cryin' out loud, even my wife notices the noise.  |
08-23-09, 10:17 AM
|  | Cadillac Owners Connoisseur Cadillac(s): '05 CTS-V, '00 SLS, 98 SLS, 89 Eldo, '80 Eldo | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC Age: 38 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
FYI I changed my diff fliud after it started whining cuz of the Specter bushings. I put in Amsoil, and it seemed to get louder. After a few hundred miles, it quieted down. I have 34K on my original diff.
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08-23-09, 10:31 AM
| | Cadillac Owners Connoisseur Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Spring, Texas | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
I believe you about having the noise, I am just not able diagnose it over the internet. I am getting old and my hearing is impaired.
If you get a used differential to rebuild, you would want to get at least second generation unit (Part number 15793756), which I assume is what you have. Better yet would be a third generation unit (Part number 25873498), which is the most improved.
Since the first step in the rebuild process would be to inspect the case for concentricity, etc. you should know immediately whether it is distorted. If the case is good, you could get some good gears from someone like Rockland Standard Gear. Done correctly you should get a lot miles.
You might want to check Luke's price on new unit to establish the logical spending limit.
One final note - I checked with Jasper, which is a leading provider of rebulit engines, transmissions, and differentials. For whatever reason they do not supply rebuilt differentials for either CTS-Vs or even the CTS. This would seem to indicate the economics for rebuilding these is not good, which of course consistent with GM's conclusion. |
08-23-09, 01:57 PM
| | Mods on hold till diff gets fixed. Cadillac(s): 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Lyon, MI Age: 60 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twitch ... I put in Amsoil, and it seemed to get louder. After a few hundred miles, it quieted down. ... | Mine has gotten louder after a couple hundred miles. Quote:
Originally Posted by darkman ... I am just not able diagnose it over the internet. I am getting old and my hearing is impaired. ... | I hear ya.  Oh, sorry.
Seriously, those are good ideas, especially the one about calling Luke to benchmark the cost of a new one. It'd be silly to buy a used one, buy and stuff it with a bunch of components, and end up with more $ into it than just buying one already done.
Tomorrow, I might have a few minutes to try to get some decent audio on my video camera. If not tomorrow, then soon ... let me work on it. In the meantime, thanks for all the input guyz, 'specially you, darkman.  |
08-24-09, 12:21 AM
|  | CTS  ader Cadillac(s): 2006 CTS 3.6 // 2005 CTS-V | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: an I-294 traffic jam Age: 35 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
If it helps, when mine was replaced under warranty, they showed the cost of the carrier at $18xx.
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08-24-09, 06:49 AM
|  | Cadillac Owners Enthusiast Cadillac(s): 04 CTS-V | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Alabama Age: 27 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
I don't want to say this for fear that my diff may explode on the commute this morning but I guess I will. I'm on the original diff in my car. 04 with 78k no whine, no explosions, and no ticking so far. I don't go off doing burn outs every day but since I purchased the car last year with 45k I havent exactly treated it like a baby either. I don't do the 1st gear clutch dumps but I don't cut it any slack shifting to second and third at WOT either. How much is a new one?
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08-24-09, 07:29 AM
|  | Cadillac Technician Cadillac(s): none | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alexandria, VA Age: 41 | | | Re: Diff Rebuild -- Is it worth it?
You can take them apart and put them back together again but....
It almost isn't worth the risk of putting a Gen I or Gen II in without knowing their current condition.
The manual doesn't even show how to verify that the backlash is within spec. I have never taken one apart and I don't even know if you can adequately adjust the tooth pattern.
As I have stated before my personal theory is that these whine from case distortion. If it was an old 12 bolt posi I have tool that I could use to actually measure that. Strangely those never distored but they did have some machining issues where the pinion bores were not machined properly and it would lead to gear noise. This Getrag unit is pretty much a disposable item as far as I can see.
We don't even waste time tearing them down. There are 3 of us that have enough experience listening to these things to hear the noise and determine if it needs replaced or not.
The only used one worth getting would be a Gen III and you might have to look at 50 to find one in salvage.
Not sure what the price is exactly. It would be nice to hear the noise you hear before calling it over the web.
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