Electric water Pump

[JohnnyV]

has anyone installed an electric waterpump on any of the V's?
The manufactures claim 10-15 hp?

[darkman]

Good question - I have not installed one but I have thought about it. The horespower gain seems plausible, but I have not seen any independent verification. I would want to know with certainty that the flow rate was adedquate for a hot climate with heavy AC use. I also am concerned that an electric pump would effect the motor warranty.

[submariner409]

What is the horsepower loss due to requiring the alternator to run the pump motor ? Electricity in a car isn't free. Maybe a few HP gain at WOT, otherwise overall loss. (As it is now, if your engine uses electric fan(s), you're only running a small belt-driven water pump, not a viscous or hard drive fan, so the claimed "gain" is even less.) If your HVAC system is in any mode requiring the A/C compressor to run, not only does the compressor present a big engine load, but the fans run in slow, another load. Just turning the A/C system to some "ventilation only" mode will give you 6 - 8 HP across the board (the A/C compressor drops out at WOT).

[darkman]

Originally Posted by submariner409

What is the horsepower loss due to requiring the alternator to run the pump motor ? Electricity in a car isn't free. Maybe a few HP gain at WOT, otherwise overall loss. (As it is now, if your engine uses electric fan(s), you're only running a small belt-driven water pump, not a viscous or hard drive fan, so the claimed "gain" is even less.) If your HVAC system is in any mode requiring the A/C compressor to run, not only does the compressor present a big engine load, but the fans run in slow, another load. Just turning the A/C system to some "ventilation only" mode will give you 6 - 8 HP across the board (the A/C compressor drops out at WOT).

It is my understanding that while electricity in a car isn't "free" it is almost free because the system has storage (the battery), is designed to meet peak or spikes, is underutilized most of the time, and the incremental drag is insignificant. This is evidenced by the fact you can add lots of accesories before you need to upgrade standard alternators. (If someone has some hard facts to the contrary I have an open mind on this point.)

I agree that the AC is probably a bigger power drain than a mechanical water pump, but the AC already has an off switch that the mechanical water pump does not.

[ccextra1976]

^^^agree....only a before and after dyno would tell...I searched a few pages here and didn't see anything or anyone do this, so good thread debate/topic

[submariner409]

The kicker is that the battery functions only to start the car, never afterward. The alternator carries every bit of the total electrical load as long as the engine is running and the charging system is intact. Cyclical loads, such as A/C clutch cycling and electric fan loads, as well as radical audio loads, have no effect on the battery, per se: they vary the amperage/voltage supplied by the alternator as a function of sensed battery condition. The installed alternator is usually loaded to only some of its high rpm capacity. Yes, the battery may contribute current, but only at low rpm idle when the alternator cannot maintain output vs. load.

Electricity in a car is anything but free......it costs quite a bit of power and gas mileage to run all the toys, same as your home electric bill: more toys, more load, more $$$ at the end of the month.

Theoretically, and practically, if you were to start the car, insert a large load resistor of the same rating as current internal battery resistance, and remove the battery, the car would be perfectly happy until you had to start it again.

[JohnnyV]

the only reason I am interested in doing the conversion, is due to a coolant leak stemming from the waterpump seal (unconfirmed). The cost is about the same OEM mechanical pump is $450, high performance electrical pump is $500.

PS. a friendly word of advice: for those who are living in a cold climate, make sure the F#@*ing idiots at the cadi dealership put the proper antifreeze in the cooling system (not water). Mine froze, and I am extremely lucky I did push out a frost plug or worse cracked or stretch a head.

[ctsv154]

They filled it with straight water? No antifreeze at all?

[JohnnyV]

yep... I do ask the question who's the bigger idiot? me for not checking or them for being too lazy or stupid.






don't answer

[ccextra1976]

Originally Posted by JohnnyV

yep... I do ask the question who's the bigger idiot? me for not checking or them for being too lazy or stupid.






don't answer

if they did fill with 100% water and it was still within a reasonable time frame ago they should have to pay to fix

[darkman]

Originally Posted by submariner409

The kicker is that the battery functions only to start the car, never afterward. The alternator carries every bit of the total electrical load as long as the engine is running and the charging system is intact. Cyclical loads, such as A/C clutch cycling and electric fan loads, as well as radical audio loads, have no effect on the battery, per se: they vary the amperage/voltage supplied by the alternator as a function of sensed battery condition. The installed alternator is usually loaded to only some of its high rpm capacity. Yes, the battery may contribute current, but only at low rpm idle when the alternator cannot maintain output vs. load.

Electricity in a car is anything but free......it costs quite a bit of power and gas mileage to run all the toys, same as your home electric bill: more toys, more load, more $$$ at the end of the month.

This reminds me of the discussion about electric radiator fans versus mechanical fans many years ago. Since then electric fans have become almost standard on many domestic and foreign cars. I thought this was because it had been established with little doubt that the electric fans used less energy (increased mpg) as compared to the mehcanical fans.

Afterall is said and done the before/after dyno test already mentioned would answer the specific question as whether the electric water pump would increase instaneous (WOT) horsepower without regard to its effect on mpg, etc.

[ccextra1976]

Originally Posted by darkman

This reminds me of the discussion about electric radiator fans versus mechanical fans many years ago. Since then electric fans have become almost standard on many domestic and foreign cars. I thought this was because it had been established with little doubt that the electric fans used less energy (increased mpg) as compared to the mehcanical fans.

Afterall is said and done the before/after dyno test already mentioned would answer the specific question as whether the electric water pump would increase instaneous (WOT) horsepower without regard to its effect on mpg, etc.

Mods can we get a little dyno "smiley" it always comes up and would be funny

"this thread is worthless without a dyno"

[JohnnyV]

I had the car shipped from California to Toronto Canada through a dealership network. If I start accusing the dealership, service techs, etc. they will just point the finger at the other guy or me. The part that floors me is not the fact that it hit minus 10 uphere frequently, who in their right mind would use water... coolant is not only designed not to freeze, but to lubricate the pump and prevent internal corrosion. The warranty is almost up, I will be doing my own service from now on.

[darkman]

Originally Posted by ccextra1976

Mods can we get a little dyno "smiley" it always comes up and would be funny

"this thread is worthless without a dyno"

Agree.

In all fairness however, the original author of this thread was asking if someone had already been down this rabbit trail.

[darkman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyV

I had the car shipped from California to Toronto Canada through a dealership network. If I start accusing the dealership, service techs, etc. they will just point the finger at the other guy or me. The part that floors me is not the fact that it hit minus 10 uphere frequently, who in their right mind would use water... coolant is not only designed not to freeze, but to lubricate the pump and prevent internal corrosion. The warranty is almost up, I will be doing my own service from now on.

Hell I thought you guys ran Dexcool in your toilets up there. I cannot imagine someone grabbing a water hose to fill a radiator.