Wheel Hop....
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Wheel Hop.... in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; I just got this email from a friend that works at an auto magazine (there's more in it, but I'll ...
  1. #1
    miscreant's Avatar
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    Wheel Hop....

    I just got this email from a friend that works at an auto magazine (there's more in it, but I'll just post the part you guys will want to hear)

    "...Also, we just received a CTS-V with the Performance Suspension
    package recently introduced by Cadillac. It was a
    2004 model, so it looks like
    this package will work for all years. Anyway, the thing plants
    SO MUCH better, its amazing. It still hops a little, but not enough to really degrade your lauch. This should be
    standard not optional. It's a little harsher on the rough roads, but rides surprisingly well on straight, smooth surfaces. I'll get you
    numbers soon." (original emphasis)

    Disclaimer: I haven't seen/driven the FG2 myself, this is just a forwarded opinion.
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
    2004 Pontiac GTO: http://www.myyellowgto.com

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  3. #2
    CVP33's Avatar
    CVP33 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Finally!!!!!


    CAL, get those damned things on your V will yah!? I need a first hand report to confirm.

    Thanks,

    cvp

  4. #3
    Cal
    Cal is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Okay, I'll call the dealer (Sat or Mon) and see what they will charge me to put the suckers in.

  5. #4
    DarthVader Guest

    Re: Wheel Hop....

    How much was the FG2 package over the counter?

  6. #5
    CVP33's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    I believe Cal got "jobber" price around $1,100 vs. $1,300+ retail.

  7. #6
    CVP33's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    GM parts direct was $1,171 shipped, but I believe they were sold out when Cal or someone tried to order them. I'm sure that most local dealers would be eager to work something out with a buyer of a $50,000 car.

  8. #7
    lasstss's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Miscreant, you work for a dealer? Why cant anyone get Cadillac to address this issue and fix it?? Isnt there a district manager that we can bitch to?? This whole thing isnt right for the money we paid...

  9. #8
    miscreant's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Quote Originally Posted by lasstss
    Miscreant, you work for a dealer? Why cant anyone get Cadillac to address this issue and fix it?? Isnt there a district manager that we can bitch to?? This whole thing isnt right for the money we paid...
    I don't think Cadillac ever imagined that buyers would be pissed they couldn't drag their car. In fact, all the press around the CTS-V is POSITIVE! I have yet to read an article about the car that didn't glorify it's handling/touring prowless, and many times it was admitted that the sacrifice for the CST-V being able to best EVERYTHING it came against was the wheel hop. Every magazine, unless they test a BMW, almost always has something BAD that they rant on. With the CTS-V, they pass over the wheel hop like it's no big thing, because everthing else is so good. I just read an article about the CTS-V where they even said something like "who cares about planting this thing in a straight line, it was tuned for the twisties as a daily driver..."

    Now again, I am not defending Cadillac, but I will state this. Very few cars under 4000lbs put out the amount of low end torque the CTS-V does. Of those, EVERY ONE of them I can think of suffers from wheel hop. The Corvette since the ZR-1 has SUFFERED from wheel hop. When the Corvette switched to the BIG meat in the back, it got rid of *some* of the wheel hop. But the Corvette still suffers.

    I do think it was a mistake to use Nivomats - you don't need rear loadleveling in the V - the springs are 27% stiffer to help.

    Should GM replace the rear suspension? IMHO, no. I can think of 10 major things wrong with the Range Rover, and it's $75k+. I've driven a Porsche 996 and I can't control the rear end, and if you push the gas too hard into a turn, it WILL come undone on me. So I can't pull a 1.01g skidpad in a 996. They should fix it!

    No, I think the CTS-V was tuned as a high power touring sedan, not a dragster. And so far, everything I read says it's the best under $80,000! No, I think Cadillac did a great job.

    Just like you have to add horsepower to a F-body to drag it effectively and compete, you have to rework the CTS-V's rear to drag it...Just MHO...
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
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  10. #9
    nupeskee is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Thumbs up Agreed

    Agreed

  11. #10
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    I agree also....

    However, that is not going to stop me from going out and buying some bilsteins or koni's when they make them for this car. I will pay for this cause I want to go fast in a straight line without the -thump thumps-.


    Reed

  12. #11
    5CTRVET's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    I will admit that I am not into drag racing my V but I have experienced the dreaded wheel hop while coming out of some sharp corners on the local road course! It is quite unsettling to have the rear end start hopping around while exiting a decreasing radius turn at 60+ mph. So as far as tuning for the twisties...I disagree to some extent. My '98 C5 with over 400 hp had NO wheel hop issues (stock suspension and EMTs) at the drag strip, road course or autocross course. This issue should be resolved by Cadilllac. If they claim it can do sub 5 sec 0-60 and NO magazine can even come close, something is wrong. Similar to the whole hp claims by Ford for the Cobra or Mazda for the RX-8. Ford had to recall the cars to replace parts to get the claimed hp and Mazda "adjusted" their claims in advertising to prevent any issues...why should Cadillac not have to deliver what they advertise?!?! Hell I've seen some new Dodge Magnum RTs that can launch without a hint of wheel hop (340hp/390lbft), have a 5 spd auto, rwd and they only cost $30K!!! I am NOT comparing my V to a station wagon by any means I am just pointing out that the issue can and has been resolved in cars that cost much less.

    The comment about the 996 breaking loose in the corners if you're into the throttle too much proves my point...Porsche delivered what they advertised. The automotive press can match or beat the factory numbers on that car...the same cannot be said about the V.

    I love my V and am very happy that I bought it (wouldn't want any other sedan). I just have a problem when my little brother can blow me away off the line in his stock WRX STi!! Sure I can catch up and then overtake him but this wasn't an issue in my C5. I nailed the loud pedal and I had him...no issues.
    Bill

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    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Quote Originally Posted by 5CTRVET
    I will admit that I am not into drag racing my V but I have experienced the dreaded wheel hop while coming out of some sharp corners on the local road course! It is quite unsettling to have the rear end start hopping around while exiting a decreasing radius turn at 60+ mph. So as far as tuning for the twisties...I disagree to some extent. My '98 C5 with over 400 hp had NO wheel hop issues (stock suspension and EMTs) at the drag strip, road course or autocross course. This issue should be resolved by Cadilllac. If they claim it can do sub 5 sec 0-60 and NO magazine can even come close, something is wrong. Similar to the whole hp claims by Ford for the Cobra or Mazda for the RX-8. Ford had to recall the cars to replace parts to get the claimed hp and Mazda "adjusted" their claims in advertising to prevent any issues...why should Cadillac not have to deliver what they advertise?!?! Hell I've seen some new Dodge Magnum RTs that can launch without a hint of wheel hop (340hp/390lbft), have a 5 spd auto, rwd and they only cost $30K!!! I am NOT comparing my V to a station wagon by any means I am just pointing out that the issue can and has been resolved in cars that cost much less.

    The comment about the 996 breaking loose in the corners if you're into the throttle too much proves my point...Porsche delivered what they advertised. The automotive press can match or beat the factory numbers on that car...the same cannot be said about the V.

    I love my V and am very happy that I bought it (wouldn't want any other sedan). I just have a problem when my little brother can blow me away off the line in his stock WRX STi!! Sure I can catch up and then overtake him but this wasn't an issue in my C5. I nailed the loud pedal and I had him...no issues.
    Bill
    but he has awd.

  14. #13
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Quote Originally Posted by 5CTRVET
    I will admit that I am not into drag racing my V but I have experienced the dreaded wheel hop while coming out of some sharp corners on the local road course! It is quite unsettling to have the rear end start hopping around while exiting a decreasing radius turn at 60+ mph. So as far as tuning for the twisties...I disagree to some extent.
    When you reach the point the V starts to hop around a sharp turn, you're also at the point that most other cars would break loose...I'd rather hop then break loose...

    My '98 C5 with over 400 hp had NO wheel hop issues (stock suspension and EMTs) at the drag strip, road course or autocross course.
    Most C5 guys have it. If you go over to the vette forums, it's an issue.

    This issue should be resolved by Cadilllac.
    Resolved, perhaps. But not recalled. Not provided for free. I can't agree. The CTS-V will be due for improvements. Every car is improved.

    If they claim it can do sub 5 sec 0-60 and NO magazine can even come close, something is wrong.
    Close? 5.1s, 5.2s? That's pretty darn close. I can't recall many manufacturer claims that can be duplicated, but I can recall many manufacturer claims that can't be duplicated. When I read in a brochure, "will do 0-60 in X.X seconds" I typically add about .5 seconds to that!

    Similar to the whole hp claims by Ford for the Cobra or Mazda for the RX-8. Ford had to recall the cars to replace parts to get the claimed hp and Mazda "adjusted" their claims in advertising to prevent any issues...why should Cadillac not have to deliver what they advertise?!?!
    That's a TOTALLY different legality issue. If we start holding manufacturers to exacting advertising claims related to performance, to include non-automobile companies, we're going to have some serious issues. "Acne cream, will eliminate 80% of your pimples"...They need to redesign this stuff, it only eliminated 78% of my pimples...

    Hell I've seen some new Dodge Magnum RTs that can launch without a hint of wheel hop (340hp/390lbft), have a 5 spd auto, rwd and they only cost $30K!!! I am NOT comparing my V to a station wagon by any means I am just pointing out that the issue can and has been resolved in cars that cost much less.
    Well, though it's a moot point, we're talking a 4150lb vehicle with 48% of that in the rear, and the Hemi's torque curve (in the Magnum) sucks. You have to get to almost 3000rpm before you hit 90%. Not to mention the Chrysler ESP/TC comes into play, much more than in the CTS-V.

    The comment about the 996 breaking loose in the corners if you're into the throttle too much proves my point...Porsche delivered what they advertised. The automotive press can match or beat the factory numbers on that car...the same cannot be said about the V.
    Go buy a porsche then. - but seriously, MOST manufacturer numbers on performance are typically exagerated, usually the "best" result of many days of testing...

    I love my V and am very happy that I bought it (wouldn't want any other sedan). I just have a problem when my little brother can blow me away off the line in his stock WRX STi!! Sure I can catch up and then overtake him but this wasn't an issue in my C5. I nailed the loud pedal and I had him...no issues.
    The Sti will beat just about everything off the line...Sounds like you had a factory freak C5!
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
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  15. #14
    benjet's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    While I can agree with most posters in this thread that this car wasn't made for drag racing (and I tend to not clutch dump - ever), I do get wheel hop as stated above (by 5CTRVET) "while coming out of some sharp corners" and as well while landing in 2nd during a 1-2 shift within the engine's spec'd (normal) powerband (and this happens to me OFTEN!).

    This concerns me greatly as these are THE INTENDED PURPOSE of a TOURING SEDAN! To be able to get the power down - when you have all the power on tap - should NOT be an issue. Coming out of corners and getting the car moving (NOT LAUNCHING) quickly up to speed, is what Nurburgring seemed like it was all about, yet I cannot even get close - without the backend scrambling.

    I happen to run into one of the tech's from one of the local dealers last night, he told me they have already replaced one guys rear spindle that snapped. We've hard on the board of another with a snapped rear axle. I suppose they will replace mine when and if it goes. And when they do, they will see that I have not been draggin' it (no clutch issues).

    So what about those of us in the same boat as I? (Looking for a show of hands)....

    -Ben

    P.S. I still love this car, and if you read thru my previous posts I don't talk about the hop much, just thought I'd clarify that my issue with hop has nada to do with drag/lanuch, and everything to do with what this car was desgined and built for (or at least that was my understanding). Can I get an AMEN ?

  16. #15
    benjet's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel Hop....

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    When you reach the point the V starts to hop around a sharp turn, you're also at the point that most other cars would break loose...I'd rather hop then break loose...
    I could not DISAGREE more, I'm nowhere near the points I have broken loose in other ~400hp/~4000lb vehicles.

    But I'll give it to you that the above statement could be tire related (EMT).

    However as to preference for hop vs. breaking loose, when a car begins to break loose a skilled driver can sense this and immediately correct (then the driver would know the limits of the car's/tire's mechanical grip). The hop seems to be an unexpected response from the vehicle and seemingly more destructive (assuming you didn't make contact with anything after breaking loose in a turn) to the vehicle, as well it seems, to the driver's perseption of where the mechanical grip is lost.

    -Ben

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