clear bra :)

[atdeneve]

Also, if you're getting scratches taken out (painted and blended - I think black just so happens to be one of the harder colors to blend), so that you can put the clear bra on, you're gonna wanna/hafta wait at least 30 days to let the paint cure. Cuz as soon as you put that film on, if the paint is not cured, you're gonna get bubbling under the film. There goes your 650 bones.

Actually, I'm in the same boat. I need to get my whole exterior in pristine condition, so that I can slap some clear bra all over it. I'm thinking if I should just repaint the whole thing with a higher quality nano-metallic paint (dude, should I go crazy with it?)

If I'm remembering correctly, I got quoted like, at least 900 just for the front, 1300 or more for the whole thing (front bumper, first few inches of hood, front portion of fenders, side mirrors, and I think the rear bumper - just the vertical section - and 1600+ for a custom job - meaning extra areas that aren't included as a pre-cut kit). This is from 3M certified dealers. Oh yeah, and about 350-450 for tinting - don't remember exactly (half that to remove my current tints)? Am I just getting anally raped with these quotes? Any you guys got connects or recommendations for an installer in the NY-NJ area (preferably 3M certified guys - I guess)?

Anyways, yeah, so back to my initial point, you're gonna have to wait about 30 days to let the paint cure. Don't put the clear bra on right away! Any experienced installer should tell you this. Yessum, I know, you wanna protect it immediately after having it repainted, but it's just gonna booblay. You're just gonna have to nanny it for about a month before tossing it on there. Either park it, or do what Z06 does.

Originally Posted by z06bigbird

I make it a point to drive in between all the bugs, dirt, rain, etc.

Takes a little effort, and it wears the edges of my tires, but.....

Both are gonna require some mad skillz, son!

[Mystical_Ice]

yeah you have to wait after it gets painted, but it hasn't been painted. just had scratches buffed out of it.

now it may have to wait 30 days if it has to get painted

[thebigjimsho]

Originally Posted by rand49er

As much as I like Zaino stuff, their literature doesn't say chit ... just insults one's intelligence with glib nonsense talk.

And insertions of early 90's rocker chicks with nice boobs and adam's apples...

[Mystical_Ice]

OK here's what happened today:

so i take it there. first off the woman receptionist starts getting an attitude:
"can i help you?"
"i'd like to see Mark please" (the owner, who i talked with yesterday)
"well can't i help you? i've been in this industry longer than mark has..."
"i'm sorry. maybe you can help me. i just noticed, under flourescent light and in the sun, the paint's full of swirls, which it didn't have when i brought it to you yesterday"
"i'm sorry. you drive a black car. trust me. that's what happens. obviously you've never buffed it before"
"all i know is that i brought it to you not looking like this. i'll wait for mark..."

so anyway, mark didn't show up for over an hour, but in the meantime i talked to the 'hispanic' guys that did the work yesterday. they told me to pull it into the shop, after which they said "i don't see the problem". i said watch this, and pulled it into the sunlight. bam. they all admitted it was there, but they all said "it's a black car man. it's hard to not have those".

i said yes, i understand, but they weren't there when i brought it in. the paint was factory perfect.

anyway, so then they say they'll wax it for me. at this point mark arrives. i tell mark that i would like them to wax it, but not as a permanent solution... just because i need to take a road trip tomorrow morning, and i won't have time to put the clear bra on, so i'm hoping a layer of wax will do its job of protecting the car. he says OK, they'll do that (and the 4 or 5 guys start washing and waxing the car, which they work on for ~30 minutes or more). i tell him that i know the clear bra installers will REMOVE the wax when they put the clear bra on, and that when the wax is removed, all those swirls (or "halos", as i learned today they are officially called) will come back, and there's no way in hell i'm putting a plastic film on top of terrible looking paint.

he says "no, the wax will fill the swirls, and when the wax is removed, the swirls will still be gone".

i totally called BS in the back of my mind, because if wax is so powerful that it permanently removes light scratches, even after it's removed, then why didn't they just wax my car in the first place, instead of using a high speed rotary buffer to get rid of the scratches. total nonsense i think.

i also learned that, to their credit, the only way to get rid of scratches is with a high speed rotary buffer, and that an orbital buffer you can use to remove swirls, or with waxing, but that it won't ever remove scratches (deeper ones, even though they're still relatively light).

soooo anyway. even with the wax, you can still see the swirls LIGHTLY, only when the sun shines on it. still worse than when i got it, so i kept fighting with him. he was very nice. said i should bring it back on monday as soon as i get back and they'll wet sand it with 3000 grit. actually the head painter (i'm assuming that was him) suggested that, but i'm not so sure i'm comfortable taking it back, because none of the guys there except mark (owner) were happy with me after i questioned their work, you know. they BEGRUDGINGLY waxed and washed the car, but i watched them like hawks.

SO, they want to wet sand it on monday, and mark said it's going to take most of the day to do, if not the whole day (which makes me think... good... at least they'll do a good job)

took it to ANOTHER friend, who does work on Saleens, Vipers, Corvettes, and Ford GTs for a living, and he said that what he'd suggest is instead of 3000grit wetsanding it (which he said will remove even MORE of my clear coat, which is probably pretty low after that hardcore 'polishing' they did originally (don't know the difference between polishing and buffing)) that i should tell them to use 3M swirl remover, or whatever it is (he gave me a part# too). he also said body shops aren't good for getting the paint glossy, and i should've taken it to a high-end car wash facility instead (live and learn i guess), and should've had the body shop touch up the bumper and left it at that.

i also noticed, i must throw in, that the tail lights were 'buffed' or 'polished' or whatever too. the swirls extended right onto the taillights. same goes for the headlights. scratched and all. it's like they just ran the buffer right over the head and taillights. terrible.

what think.

[Mystical_Ice]

i must add that the car DOES look good now. (now that the sun's gone down)

(see attachment)

almost as good as my 1980 cadillac in its prime

[The Tony Show]

Originally Posted by Mystical_Ice

OK here's what happened today:

so i take it there....

he says "no, the wax will fill the swirls, and when the wax is removed, the swirls will still be gone".

Wrong- unless they use a polish/wax combo. Wax is non abrasive.

i also learned that, to their credit, the only way to get rid of scratches is with a high speed rotary buffer, and that an orbital buffer you can use to remove swirls, or with waxing, but that it won't ever remove scratches (deeper ones, even though they're still relatively light).

Wrong- Polishing is polishing. The only difference between an orbital and a rotary is the rotation pattern, speed and heat generated. What he meant to say was, "It's only possible with an orbital if you're willing to spend time on it. We use a rotary because we're lazy"

....said i should bring it back on monday as soon as i get back and they'll wet sand it with 3000 grit......SO, they want to wet sand it on monday, and mark said it's going to take most of the day to do, if not the whole day (which makes me think... good... at least they'll do a good job)

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. I wrote this big so you don't miss it like the advice about the rotary. Wetsanding is for removing large amounts of paint to eliminate orangepeel or deeper scratches. The swirl marks are measurable in microns, so you only need to remove a microscopic amount of clear to get rid of them. Wetsanding to remove swirls is like cutting off your head to get rid of a pimple.

took it to ANOTHER friend, who does work on Saleens, Vipers, Corvettes, and Ford GTs for a living, and he said that what he'd suggest is instead of 3000grit wetsanding it (which he said will remove even MORE of my clear coat, which is probably pretty low after that hardcore 'polishing' they did originally (don't know the difference between polishing and buffing)) that i should tell them to use 3M swirl remover...

Your friend is wise, but just remember that the product is only as good as the method in which it is applied. Give me the same paints Van Gogh used and I still couldn't paint you a Van Gogh. If they use the rotary again, it's just going to leave you a thinner crappy paint job.

i also noticed, i must throw in, that the tail lights were 'buffed' or 'polished' or whatever too. the swirls extended right onto the taillights. same goes for the headlights. scratched and all. it's like they just ran the buffer right over the head and taillights. terrible.

what think.

That would be the end for me. Get your car away from these tools before you have bare metal car on your hands, DeLorean style. Tell the owner you've lost confidence in their work, and want a letter guaranteeing payment to another shop to remove the swirls.

Listen to me when I say this:

You passed on the first set of advice and got hosed. Don't ignore good advice a second time. I know you want the car fixed and want it done NOW, but be patient and get it done properly somewhere else, or only allow these 'tards to do it if they use an Orbital.

[rand49er]

I pick my car up tomorrow from the body shop my insurance company "suggested" for my little front bumper mishap (that thread's probably on page 50 by now), and you guys have me scared stiff! Hope the heck they did it right 'cause they're replacing the clear bra, too.



Guess I better have another beer so I can sleep tonight. BTW, GREAT info, Tony!

Good thing mine ain't black.

[thebigjimsho]

My '01 Accord had a funky Midnight Black Pearl paint job that was black in almost every light but did have a blue metallic tint in certain light. I used to take my cars to a local one guy op who was unbelievable at body work. He talked about 3M swirl remover as the holy grail of body supplies.

I saw him do some work on that Accord and it is indeed good stuff.

At this point, I'd ask your friend where to go to have someone use this and swallow the money spent on shop #1. You'll lose money now but be much happier in the end.

[TaVern]

It might be a better option to cut your losses and trust another shop. I definitely wouldn't go back to shop #1, unless you plan to watch those guys like hawks all day long.

[capt. dan]

WOW, get away from them as fast as you can. If you cannot feel any of those with you fingernail then you should be ok. The paint on these cars are so sensitive to scratching its very hard to keep them swirl free. It also takes some work to get them out once they are there. Where are you located? If you go to this site,

http://autopia.org/forum/

see if you can find someone on here local to you. They should be able to help you out. Good luck and hope things work out for you. If I can help let me know.

Dan

[Mystical_Ice]

OK,

soooo do you think the paint/clear-coat i have left is enough that i can still get it looking like new without having to reapply clearcoat?

seriously... would one of you mind speaking to the owner (mark) on the phone? i think he takes me to be totally ignorant when it comes to this (and he'd be right, i really am), but i think one of you speaking to him on the phone can really convince him of a) what he should do, or b) that i need to take the car somewhere else
? any takers?

[Mystical_Ice]

Originally Posted by capt. dan

Where are you located? If you go to this site,

http://autopia.org/forum/

see if you can find someone on here local to you. They should be able to help you out. Good luck and hope things work out for you. If I can help let me know.

Dan

what part of it would i post? how should i phrase it? just that i'm looking for a good detailer?
i'm in Houston, TX

[Mystical_Ice]

Originally Posted by thebigjimsho

At this point, I'd ask your friend where to go to have someone use this and swallow the money spent on shop #1. You'll lose money now but be much happier in the end.

but i refuse to do that. i'm not a high roller like you guys. i'm 21. full time college student, that saved up for years for this car, and saved up for a week just to get this work done. i can't afford to lose that much money. if they end up stripping all the paint off, then i'll make them repaint the car. i'll just keep taking it back.

at the same time, i know how bad a repainted car can be.

i dunno i need to find one of ya'll (hopefully tony show) that would be willing to spend 10 minutes on the phone with them telling them what's up

[TaVern]

Originally Posted by Mystical_Ice

OK,

soooo do you think the paint/clear-coat i have left is enough that i can still get it looking like new without having to reapply clearcoat?

seriously... would one of you mind speaking to the owner (mark) on the phone? i think he takes me to be totally ignorant when it comes to this (and he'd be right, i really am), but i think one of you speaking to him on the phone can really convince him of a) what he should do, or b) that i need to take the car somewhere else
? any takers?

And I'm being serious as well...

Myst, something has gone seriously wrong with this business transaction. What you payed good money for and expected did *not* happen. You took your baby V in and it came out worse than it was before! I'm just as furious as you!

I know it's hard, but exercise patience. You want this done now, but if you rush it with the wrong shop it will only get worse. I'm no expert on automotive body work, but the photos and descriptions you posted reveal a very legitimate complaint.

Tony has given very good advice... Heed it!

I really hope everything works out. Keep us posted.

[Mystical_Ice]

Sorry, had to go to a wedding out of town. Just got back (no internet access... out on the lake).

OK I'm going to take Tony's advice. He said to just take the car somewhere else to get it fixed. However, i AM going to try to get them to pay for it. If not, i'll fight them like crazy. If they do, then great. I'll be happy.