outbackwallaby (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Why are things like this are discounted because they involve trial and error? Humans use trial and error! Children use it to learn how the world works. Scientists even use trial and error to test inventions, drugs, theories, etc. They see what works and what doesn't work. In the end it's just a more sophisticated form of trial and error. I think the fact that the crows are trying different techniques to crack a nut open is what shows intelligence. Some animals wouldn't even attempt it.

IM1deadMONEY (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

It seems like the crow is trying to impersonate humans!

legoflamb (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I can now agree that crows have some form of intelligence. After, doing some more research I have seen enough evidence to prove to me there is intelligence in cows, through their deliberate use of tools, similar to using cars like this video states.

freedomclubLX (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Simply, intelligence is an hability that is related to learning. And learning is a process of "try and error". It was in that sense that I reminded you that intelligence and chance are related. All of this is pretty much established knowledge, as far as I'm concern. So, that is why I think you cannot dismiss this as an hability by calling it "chance" simply because you cannot put this in terms of what a human would do.

freedomclubLX (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I didn't say intelligence is by itself an expression of chance alone. I believe you are thinking in what is right in terms of what a human would understand the problem to be. This birds show a skill of adaption in their environment, and that is what some people in this context comment as being "impressive" for what they would expect.

legoflamb (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

If that is the case then, if someone were to guess 100% of the questions, on a test of 100 questions, with no prior knowledge of the subject, and place a score of 80%+, that would mean they are intelligent on that subject. I highly doubt that would be the true.

freedomclubLX (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

intelligence IS related to chance

cavalier777 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

they do other things though

sheetguy12 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

you and me both i love crows

legoflamb (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

This study that showed evidence of crow intelligence was not held correctly, the samples were to small to prove any sort of intelligence. A second study of crows that was taken in larger samples proved that the crows attempt to crush the nut by car was only by chance, not through intelligence.